Thanks for the replies everyone, I’m really glad to hear all of your thoughts! Before seeing any replies I was assuming that everyone would be asking for more action oriented combat, and I’m pleasantly surprised by the responses. I prototyped the Notrium combat style, and the melee really is the part where it fails. It should be slow enough for me to understand what’s happening, but if I make it slow enough, the rest of the game starts feeling too slow. And I couldn’t get over the fact that the keyboard movement controls are not suited to indoors, especially if any corridors are not perfectly angled.
I really did think a lot about having a good old turn based Fallout 1/2 combat system, but it’s probably not the kind of gameplay I’m looking for. I’m hoping for a more fluid gameplay where the combats are something that don’t stop you unless you want it to. I remember disliking easier opponents in Fallout precisely because it would take that halfa minute to move your character and get that single shot.
I’m inclined to move from the current system to strategic level fighting. I liked your thoughts ZeXLR8er, so I started off from there. My current thinking is something like this:
- During the game you could learn many combat skills. These would be different kinds of attacks, stat boosts, stuns, maybe defence skills, you name it.
- In combat you could choose to use any of these skills with your current weapon. Your weapon stats would be used as the base for damage, boosted by the skill.
- Using the skills would have some sort of a cost. ZeXLR8er proposed the attack points system whereby using a skill would cost you some attack points which would slowly replenish.
- The problem with this is now, why wouldn’t I always use the most powerful skill at my disposal? It could be balanced out by making it cost more, but it would still be the best skill and you’d always use it if you had the points. The best solution would be to make the skills equal in power, but each would bring new strategies to combat. And this is what I’m thinking now, what kinds of skills could there be, what skills would allow different strategies to be used?
By the way, CTRL+F12 takes a screenshot into the game save folder, which is under My Documents/Driftmoon.
Well obviously the moves would be varied depending on the type of weapon being used, especially for improvised weapons and unarmed attacks. Most of the regular weapons, however, should be able to be used in four main ways: Slicing, Stabbing, Slashing, and Smashing. Blunt weapons would have a focus on slashing only, unable to be used to cut. Axes and whips, as well as claws, could be more leaning towards slashing, which would be a type of attack focusing on hacking into the body, causing bleeding and gore. Stabbing could be represented by daggers, spears, and arrows. It would be centered around impaling the enemy and causing internal/bleeding damage. Finally, slicing would be like hacking, but more precise, more “surgical.” Represented by swords, it would be mainly focused on bleeding over structural damage, although it can be used for both. Moves would be restricted by whether or not the weapon is one-handed or two-handed, whether or not there is a weapon in each hand, and if so, what weapons and which hands are they in, is a shield being carried in hand or on the back, is the weapon improvised, etc. Certain weapons should be able to do multiple types of attacks, for example using a spiked mace that does both stabbing and smashing, or smashing someone with a sword’s pommel or flat, or slicing someone’s neck with a dagger, or slashing someone from far away with a spear. Throwing weapons/items would also be useful if you want to make a getaway and slow down your pursuers, or if you are skilled in throwing, making a silent kill with a small rock without alerting others. Unarmed / hand-to-hand should differentiate between wrestling and striking attacks, using arms, legs, knees, elbows, shoulders, the different ways to strike using the hand, head butting, and so on. Apologies for the rambling, just trying to do a bit of brainstorming for you.
Like I said do not forget to add some magic “weapons” – E.g.: Fireballs, magic bolts, acid blows… ect. As of attack types, I agree with A Duck IRL´s options, althrough you may wish to change them.
As of skills, there the “classes” and “subclasses” may play a significant role in player development:
E.g.:
Archer:>More skilled in ranged weapons, becomes more skilled at firing rather than short-range. combat, althrough he/she/it may learn to use a dagger or such for basic defence in a melee.
|——Sniper (Archer Subclass):> Focuses more in range and damage than movement; even more vulnerable in melee combat and can take less damage, but can be devastating and highly accurate.
|——Mounted Archer (Archer Subclass):> Focuses more in movement than range or damage; has also some skill to ride a creature (such as an horse) and has a good accuracy when moving, althrough he my still be vulnerable to melee combat (specially with pikemen and such who are skilled at un-mounting mounted troops).
You can add a lot of skills and classes (and subclasses) all having some unique skills, as well as general skills. I think it sounds complicated but it works well in rogue-like games (I know Driftmoon is far away from a rogue-like, but it is to give an idea of how much stuff you can actually add).
I think for skills I recomend taking a look at T.o.M.E., which has a quite large skills/subskills and classes/subclasses. Maybe you should also want to take a look at the races? Then check Zangbang too.
Regards.
Well, i remember distinctly from KotOR that i indeed basically only used once combo. However, it was huge fun because i had spent the entire game developing that move, rather than just suddenly “getting it”.
Instead of advancing any damage, i focused a lot on Force Speed and something else i’ve forgotten (also a double-edged saber) to increase the amount of hits i do per turn. I think it eventually got up to 5 or 6 for the opening attack. I spent the entire game countering the To Hit penalties i was getting, but eventually i got to a point where i would pretty much always hit and do ridiculous damage. When everything finally “clicked” near the very end of the game, i was on top of the gorram world.
What made this possible, i think, were the tiered powers and the fact that i could plan out my character from a very early stage, rather than learning of new abilities during the game.
No particular suggestion here, just throwing ideas out.
I see what you’re saying, Ville, and agree with it almost completely, but not quite entirely. A more powerful attack when used would take a long, long time before it could be used again. This wait time is what would even out the attacks; I can’t see a player always sitting and waiting again and again to be able to use a powerful attack when a less powerful one can be done far more frequently; it’d be far more fun that way. To make sure the effects aren’t imbalanced, the timing could in fact be used to make the weapons equal in power; a powerful weapon that does twice the damage would take exactly twice the time to recharge. That way, you’d still have the fun of using powerful weapons from time to time, but in the long run, there’s no particular incentive to use just them over less powerful weapons.
I do quite like the idea of having different attacks overall equal in damage but with different effects. That way, different attacks could be used for different enemies, or different situations, ie whirl attack when surrounded, even though it wouldn’t do any more total damage than another attack (instead spread the damage around, which may be very useful). Punch could stun the enemy for a few seconds. Headbutt would knock them backwards to give you more breathing room. Stab could lower their armour levels for a few seconds, allowing you to attack again with more damage. Burning arrows would cause less damage at first, but would drain the same amount over a period of time. Twin arrows would shoot two less deadly arrows that in combination provide the same damage, etc etc. That is sounding good to me; it would allow for very nice and varied combat, that evolves as the game goes on.
And I’m not sure why I hadn’t thought of this before, but the solution to entering ranged combat is very easy, and fits right into how things are already done. The type of combat you enter into when you right click on an enemy would simply be dictated by what weapon you have wielded at the time. If you don’t have any weapons wielded, your character would approach the enemy and enter standard melee combat mode, with special attacks like “punch” and “headbutt” being the only ones you can select. If you have a knife wielded when you attack the enemy, your character would also approach the enemy and enter standard melee combat mode, with special attacks such as “stab” and “slash” added to “punch” and “headbutt” (these two attacks should always be available, since you can “punch” and “headbutt” in melee combat regardless of what weapon you have wielded [with the exception of perhaps a large two handed weapon like a mace etc]). Having a sword wielded when you attack would add special attacks like “whirl attack”. However, if you have a bow wielded when you attack an enemy, your character would not approach the enemy, but would instead hold position in ranged combat mode, with special attacks like “standard shot” “fire shot” and “double shot” available to be used (I feel that in ranged combat mode, all shots should be directly controlled by the player since playing marksman is always good fun, hence the appearance of “standard shot” in the attacks that can be selected. That’s just my opinion though.).
Now, DRL mentioned magic, and that’s something that would be very, very easy to implement into this system. Once a magic spell is learnt, it would appear in the special attacks, regardless of what weapon is wielded (just like “punch” and “headbutt” can be used for all melee weapons). So, regardless of whether you have a knife, a sword, bare hands or a bow wielded when you’re fighting, you would still be able to use magic spells, as they are something that is learnt/aprt of you, not something wielded.
ZeX, i love the general idea and system, i think it would work great, but i’d have to argue with your examples because things like a punch or headbutt are rather inapplicable in armed combat.
I’m not sure how ass-pulled your examples are, so i’ll not argue against every one ATM.
In true, real word combat, I’d agree with you 100%. But we are talking about a game universe; there’s a lot of room here for creative licence.
Either way, it doesn’t really matter; these are just suggestions and wouldn’t make or break the system as a whole. 
Yeah, but even so. Some things go beyond Acceptable Breaks From Reality and so. IMHO, if the creator would create a game about something i’m not entirely familiar with or something i’ve not experienced and bases it on reality in way that makes me go “oh, that’s cool”, it’s a lot better than relying on earlier computer game tropes.
I know i’m a lot more strict on this thing than i should be, but i’d like to think i still have a sense of what works in a game and what doesn’t.
Anyway, i guess i’ll flip my lid about this more when Ville starts showing us actual abilities that are going to be in the game and be the boring guy raving on about things nobody really cares about.
I think you should take full advantage of your physics system for combat. The possibilities are endless, and its something I’ve never seen in this type of game before. You could push spiky things into enemies, cast a fireball and then drag it around catching your foes on fire, grab an icicle of the wall and impale someone with it, etc. How awesome would that be?
Could you possibly do a notrium system + bullet time? have some kind of adrenaline gauge and in the system boost movement speed and accuracy of ranged weapons the gauge would recover over time when not in use and anytime you receive damage to help prevent running out in combat
Why not have a system for magic were you don’t just cast a fireball, you cast fire, then you cast push on the fire, propelling it forward into your enemy, or conjure some magma balls, and then cast bury to make mines, perhaps pull some stalagmites from the ceiling, cast melt, and fire some burning hot molten rock into the faces and eyes of your enemy, also being able to target different parts of your enemy’s body and showing the damage of each body part (including organs) would be great
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thats a bit much for an indie game dont you think too hard to program, and i cant figure a control scheme for it what would you have in mind?
It would save a lot of time in adding new stuff, why make lots of spells when you can have players making their own? And to make a control scheme I would first need to see the magic system that’s is already there. But (without knowledge of whats actually there at the moment) you could have something like when its your turn you can either right click on object and it would come up with a list of spells you could cast (each one taking up a certain amount of action points, which would also be displayed), or right click on yourself to see what things you can conjure(fire, rocks, familiars etc.) so if you plan well enough and have enough action points you could collapse the roof onto your enemy’s in a single turn.
Using the physics system does sound like a nice touch, especially for magic. I’ll have to keep that in mind, especially if we ever do a more magic oriented sequel.
I’m not a big fan of bullet time anymore, it feels somewhat of a cliche in today’s games. It would have to be done invisibly to the player. I mean something like you’d enter melee combat mode, the game would zoom in and run in slow motion. Or at least slow enough for someone to understand what’s happening.
But I’m probably going for the more strategic route and reserving the action based combat for Notrium 2.