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  • AETAS Discussion Thread

    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Jeezez, do you want a map or not?
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    Grim Reaper 10 years ago
    "The Gemini" said:
    Jeezez, do you want a map or not?
    We DO want a map, but MageKing doesn't seem to want it have X2 whatsits.

    Care to tell us why, MageKing?
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    MageKing17 10 years ago
    I'd rather we made our own textu--- AGH!

    What the **** did you do to your avatar?
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Oh my god, Grim... What have you done to yourself?


    Anyway, you're right MK. The problem is how we should do it. Will the textures be artistic with great supernovas, stars and nebulae, or plain Paint, something that would be easier to read.

    I do have skillz in Photoshop, and can make stars, supernovas and other things, if we should want the artistic version.
    #
    Grim Reaper 10 years ago
    @MK&Gemini: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.monkkonen.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=49988#49988">http://www.monkkonen.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9988#49988</a><!-- m -->

    The explanation behind my new avvy.
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Here's a taste of how a map can look like. It's very basic, as I didn't put much work in it. I'm pretty content with my nebula however.



    Stars within the nebula should of course have more light, so it would be easier to see them.
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago

    Just found this at wikipedia, after some random search I commited:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aetas
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    Idiota 10 years ago
    found that one long time ago.
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    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Do you think it is possible to utilize psionic energies with psionic energy harnessing devices, or enhance the psionic abilities to a person by modifying the person's genes?
    #
    Cejer 10 years ago
    "Zombie" said:
    Oh, yes... The treatise itself is out of character knowledge, but do you really expect that the Aegrus would simply not notice a universe-wide network of streams of unidentified energies that can be utilized by some people in order to do very unnatural things? The Aegrus are unnatural themselves, so anything that might help decipher their being is explored, including intense regiments of psionics and such.
    I did expect the Aegrus to fail to notice the network of energy. It’s not like all forms of energy are equally detectable. To put it in perspective you should consider “dark energy.” We’ve never detected it and scientists don’t really know anything about it. If it does exist we could have gone centuries before thinking of the possibility. The basic conclusion I’m trying to show is that you shouldn’t expect the Aegrus to know of psionisis.
    Continuing further, the Aegrus are likely at the practical stage of psionic study. That is, they are mostly figuring out how to make psionics work, and they're learning how to better use psionics. This is considerably different from the abstract knowledge of psionics. Note that the lack of abstract knowledge does not hinder the practical use of psionic abilities. Also, you never once displayed any sort of abstract knowledge in your posts, even before I wrote my treatise. It would be unreasonable to assume that after I wrote the treatise the Aegrus suddenly developed abstract knowledge. Further considering that the experience of using psionic abilities supports an incorrect assumption, to expect any currently existing race or character to understand psionics abstractly is a bit of a stretch.
    Indeed, it makes sense that understanding would occur only after psions able to directly manipulate psionisis outside their bodies studied what they were experiencing. Such psions do not yet exist within the RP.
    "Zombie" said:
    Aylee could only realize the bud's true effects on him when he was... Not particularly asleep, but not particularly awake either. He was more... skimming... the surface of his subconscious, which, of course, would be the thing that detects and draws in psionisis from the streams. His conscious mind is, technically, unable to see, feel, or comprehend the nature of psionisis itself... The Aegrus do not even know what to call the energies that allow psionic ability to function in people, but they can detect it, to some extent, with biotech and other such advanced technologies.
    I would make a few remarks about some statements within this passage. I would change the statement “his conscious mind is, technically, unable to see, feel, or comprehend the nature of psionisis itself” to “his conscious mind is, currently, unable….” The difference is that the second statement leaves the door more open to Aylee’s eventual advancement. Second, the subconscious does not “draw in” psionisis from the streams. Put simply, psionisis leaks into the natural environment, and a psion is able to manipulate the psionisis that happens to share the same area as the psion’s body. As the psion exhausts its mental strength it has trouble detecting and using psionisis, which makes it seem like a personal store of energy is being used up.
    "The Gemini" said:
    Do you think it is possible to utilize psionic energies with psionic energy harnessing devices, or enhance the psionic abilities to a person by modifying the person's genes?
    The first idea does not seem possible to me. The whole purpose of psionics in the RP thread is to give extraordinary characters some non-technology based abilities. The second idea is theoretically possible, but it is incredibly unlikely. To begin with there would be massive difficulties in identifying the genes responsible for psionic potential. Additionally, the test subjects would all have to be embryos at the point of modification so the brain develops correctly. The researchers would have to wait for them to grow up before determining whether the experiment worked or not. And then there are all of the ethical considerations that your populace would raise about genetically engineering human beings.
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    Zombie 10 years ago
    The Aegrus have been studying psionics for well near a millenium. The study of psionics is, for the Aegrus, long past the practical stage and is, recently, more tuned to the inner workings of psionics, such as why one twin can only utilize half as much psionic ability as the second twin or why certain people can utilize psionic ability certain ways and not others. I don't really go into the Aegrus' scientific development and research much unless Lamia is at the Aegrus base. I am not an empire player, I am a single player.

    More powerful psions, such as Sara who excels in all areas of psionic ability, have found pockets of space that allowed no psionic ability to be used in that area. Also, the heightened senses from Aegrus blood can help assist the more powerful psions to actually detect psionisis streams in some, minute way. While research was being conducted as to what made the psionisis-free space different from the psionisis-saturated space, several psions were conducting scouring searches in their minds, searching for the root of their psionic ability to see where it led and to try to find what powered it.

    Rumors or tales about special ability in people have not interested the Aegrus ever since they discovered that crosses do not harm them, they can bathe without fear, and that they can be as religious as they please without fearing a smiting. A "feeling" that psionic ability drained an inner reserve means nothing to any Aegrus scientist unless it comes complete with a multiple edition research paper detailing exactly what this "inner reserve" is, why it exists, what its function is, how it can be detected, and about two volumes of test results.

    Psionisis is only detectable to a minor degree by the Aegrus, and the biotech that can detect it is highly rudimentary and takes up a lot of space. The stage of psionic development that the Aegrus are at now is trying to discover practical ways to detect psionisis, and ways to integrate psionisis into technology.

    And yes, you are right. I said nothing of this more abstract, although I would consider it techincal, knowledge until you formulated the treatise because of the very reason that you formulated the treatise in the first place. I never really thought to make psionics anything more than "mental energy affecting the outside world".

    All forms are not equally detectable, yes... But people generally want to know where what they're using comes from. Especially Aegrus psions, which there are a lot of. We don't use "dark energy" do we? So we had no reason to question where it came from, nor did we even have a reason to think it existed.
    #
    Cejer 10 years ago
    "Zombie" said:
    I don't really go into the Aegrus' scientific development and research much unless Lamia is at the Aegrus base. I am not an empire player, I am a single player.
    To begin with, while you are not an empire player you have created an empire. It is your duty as the creator of that empire to flesh it out appropriately. This includes the empire being balanced, and thus destroyable if someone so decides to wage an all-out war.

    Second, you assume too much about psionisis, and you misunderstand what I put forth. There are no “psionisis streams.” There are streams of raw psionic energy (which you cannot detect, period) which slowly converts into psionisis (which you can only detect when it is in direct contact with your body). Psionisis is only detected by psions as a feeling of power coming from within their body. They cannot detect psionisis outside of their body. The only exception is a psion who can use psionisis outside of their bodies, and none of these psions exist yet within the RP.

    Some of you may wonder why I can make such claims. It is simple; you accepted my treatise. If you want it to no longer be AETAS canon go right ahead and remove it. But I warn you that if you maintain it, then I pretty much become the final word on psionics.

    "Zombie" said:
    The Aegrus have been studying psionics for well near a millenium.
    The length of time studying a subject makes no difference if the researchers lack the necessary tools. In this case, the Aegrus lack a psion capable of directly manipulating psionisis outside of his/her body.

    "Zombie" said:
    While research was being conducted as to what made the psionisis-free space different from the psionisis-saturated space…
    The only discovery would be that psions lacked the internal feeling of power and could not perform their abilities within the space with extremely low concentrations of psionisis. Extraordinarily skilled psions could theoretically feel a faint glimmer of power and coax a few abilities out, but that is merely a footnote to ensure completeness.

    "Zombie" said:
    …several psions were conducting scouring searches in their minds, searching for the root of their psionic ability to see where it led and to try to find what powered it.
    Those searches would have quickly yielded correct results that would then be misinterpreted. The searches would have detected the feeling of power within the psion, which is the actual source of their power. Rather than labeling this as some new form of cosmic energy the psions would conclude that it must be a byproduct of their efforts in some way.

    "Zombie" said:
    A "feeling" that psionic ability drained an inner reserve means nothing to any Aegrus scientist unless it comes complete with a multiple edition research paper detailing exactly what this "inner reserve" is, why it exists, what its function is, how it can be detected, and about two volumes of test results.
    Unfortunately for the Aegrus scientists that feeling (comparable to cooling down) is the only data they would have on what was occurring. The answers to the latter questions would quickly be apparent, although wrong. The psions would believe that the inner reserve is the amount of psionic energy left, which is affected by positively and negatively attuned locations. Its existence would be related to a steady build-up of power by a psionic mind because as the psion becomes less worn out the feeling of power would return. Its function would be seen as a reservoir of personal energy to fuel psionic abilities, and its detection would quickly be realized as the personal experience of each psion.

    "Zombie" said:
    Psionisis is only detectable to a minor degree by the Aegrus, and the biotech that can detect it is highly rudimentary and takes up a lot of space. The stage of psionic development that the Aegrus are at now is trying to discover practical ways to detect psionisis, and ways to integrate psionisis into technology.
    The first half sentence is correct; they can only detect what the Aegrus psions have in direct contact with their bodies. The second half sentence may also be correct; the “biotech” would be psions with biomechanical implants who can detect the psionisis they are in direct contact with. The latter half of the paragraph is foolishness. There are no more practical ways than a psion, and psionisis cannot be integrated into technology because it only responds to psions and other psionisis.
    #
    Zombie 10 years ago
    If the feeling of power is within their bodies, as you say, and they cannot use psionisis outside of their bodies, then how are they to affect anything other than themselves if this magical energy of yours is apparently untouchable except if it coexists in the same area as a psion, which would be impossible unless a psion draws the energy into themselves for use.

    The feeling of power can be construed to be internal due to the psion's intake of psionisis. While the psion cannot store psionisis for long term use, they are still drawing in psionisis to use as they are apparently unable to use psionisis outside of their bodies because you assume that no current psions can, while you never seem to really state exactly what using psionisis outside of their bodies would be accomplishing.

    You state that psionisis is leaked from streams of psionic energy, therefore a stream of psionic energy can be thought to also be a stream of psionisis. Psionisis would slowly leak from the psionic energy streams at all points, creating a constant stream of psionisis from the psionic energy stream.

    "Cejer" said:

    The latter half of the paragraph is foolishness. There are no more practical ways than a psion, and psionisis cannot be integrated into technology because it only responds to psions and other psionisis.

    "Cejer" said:

    [from the psionic treatise]
    The psionic currents can be indirectly tapped by two fairly common methods. The first is to bind a current to an object, ensuring that one’s source of psionisis does not shift its course and leave one without a renewing source of psionic energy. Only very accomplished psions are able to bind a current to a small portable object. The second method of tapping a psionic current is a psionic converter. This is a specially constructed and psionically attuned device that accelerates the conversion of raw psionic energy into psionisis.

    These are two examples of some sort of technological object being utilized to affect psionic currents in some way to provide psionisis. By your own words, you contradict your treatise. You also mention psionic amplifiers and such, too. More contradictions.

    Also, the length of study does make a difference because the only tool required are psions. In order to use psionisis, a psion must be able to sense it. No matter where that feeling comes from, even if it may feel as if it is coming from within a person, they are sensing psionisis. Being an Aegrus naturally heightens all senses of a person, all the time. Your treatise covers psions that seem to be standard lifeforms, but the Aegrus are hardly standard lifeforms. Sara is the most powerful Aegrus psion, and she is behind the leader of the psionic research division. You say that only immensely powerful psions are capable of directly manipulating psionisis outside of their bodies? How do you know Sara is not one of them? You never really define what manipulating psionisis outside of their body would provide for a psion. Being the creator of the treatise on psionics does not make you the sole commander of everything psionic. You cannot tell us how powerful our characters are, nor how powerful they may be. That is not for you alone to decide.

    It is also not for you to decide whether or not any current character can manipulate psionisis outside of their bodies. You created the psionic treatise, not the psionic characters. Do not overstep your bounds. Also, do not bother retorting with, "Well, I have seen no evidence of any characters doing it thus far" as that rebuttal would be insubstantial and nullified by the fact that our characters had no reason to exhibit these characteristics beforehand because your treatise was not accepted as a law of the AETAS world until recently.

    Research into what a psion lost in space with low psionisis concentration would indeed yeild interesting results, as you fail to see. The Aegrus do not follow superstition. They have been subject to so much superstition themselves, that they refuse to accept superstition or unfounded belief of a physical or physiological matter without hard proof. If an Aegrus psion went from point A with high psionisis concentration to point B with low psionisis concentration, they would immediately realize that something was different and that something changed. It might feel internal, but they did nothing and they feel no other change in their bodies. The Aegrus psion would then search as to what exactly caused this and, in doing so, return to point A to see if whatever changed does so again. They would find that it does and they would thusly further investigate the matter. Aegrus study into various genomes and an immense ongoing genome project has yeilded mild results in the matter of genetic psionic ability research. While not able to grant immense, or even moderate, psionic ability to modified or constructed lifeforms, a very minor ability can be generated. Comparing complete data of two genetically identical, except for the presence of psionic ability in one, lifeform constructs could easily show no physiological or neurological change between the two in either point A or point B.

    It is easily discoverable in near a millenium that psionic ability stems from within, but is not powered from within, unless you count being powered by drawn in psionisis to be powered from within.

    Aegrus psions conducting "scouring searches" of their minds are not very similar to normal psions conducting scouring searches of their minds. Aegrus brain and thought structuring, as well as DNA and genome structuring, are vastly different from average sentient beings. The Aegrus's DNA has more bases and a more intricate structure than average bioforms, and their genomes are often completely different than that of average bioforms. Down to their molecular level they have been changed by CM. Your treatise and assumptions may hold true to the average bioform, but the Aegrus are far from average. The number and magnitude of their physiological changes dwarfs the number and magnitude of the abilities that are gained or enhanced.

    When an Aegrus feels a major ability of theirs suddenly wane and lose most, if not all, function, they do not assume, "Gee, I must be tired." Especially so when they have not been exerting themselves or even using their abilities, and have just passed from one locale into another. Heightened senses do not just refer to sight, sound, touch, taste,and smell. Heightened senses refer to every possible aspect of sense. An Aegrus would know the second a blood vessel burst in their bodies, no matter how small, and would know exactly where it was. Their senses, the ones pertaining to themselves at least, are extreme.

    I enjoy this discussion, however, as I feel it is helping us further understand exactly what you mean by certain things in the psionics treatise.
    #
    Idiota 10 years ago
    You have a point, Zombie, but so does Cejer. Cejer wants to balance things, Zombie. The Aegrus are too powerful when they have knowledge over Psionisis. Just plain too powerful. They are already the superhumanoids of the falaxy, so let's not make them elite-superhumanoids, ok?

    Cejer, Zombie is right when she sais that you treatise is a bit unclear over certain things. I don't like you less for it or something, but I think it's better to work this out.
    #
    Zombie 10 years ago
    They don't have knowledge over psionisis. They don't even know what to call it. I've just said that they know it exists and that currently they are working on a way to detect it practically without needing an engineered biomachine the size of a small planet.

    Surely knowing psionisis exists doesn't add any freaking power to the Aegrus. All they do is know it exists and know that some places it is not there and that some places it is. They want to figure out the concentration gradients and develop a thing that psions can use to keep track of psionisis levels in their area. That's all. Maybe later on they would go into tapping into the streams themselves, once they know they are there. If they can find them. Sara probably is powerful enough to feel them, but she buffers herself a lot because, well... She's a major pacifist.

    The Aegrus only know psionisis exists, not what it is called or what else it might be used for other than psionic ability. Their scope of knowledge is that the "internal resivoir of power" a psion feels is their stamina levels for using an outside energy type (we know OOC that this is psionisis) and not a raw energy stemming from the psion. They can detect psionisis at a very rudimentary level, but the sensor basically can only say "Yes, there is some here" or "No, there is none here" and nothing more.

    I'm not making it out so that the Aegrus become super-powerful at psionic crap, I am just keeping them in character. Superstitions, folklore, "magic", telekinesis, psionics... Anything possibly linked to the supernatural. These are what the Aegrus pursue more doggedly than anything else. Lamia is an oddity in that she has little to no interest in this "normal" Aegrus pursuit. All other research the Aegrus perform relating to modern technologies and such are secondary, always taking a back-burner when a lead to something possibly supernaturally manifested comes in.

    In fact, the knowledge they have of psionisis doesn't even give them much of an edge, if it even does give them anything other than rudimentary knowledge of the very basicmost workings of psionisis.

    If you say I have created and empire and must keep up with it, then kindly let me do so. I am trying to and you come up with frivolous arguments because you seem to misunderstand my intentions or what I have said.

    Is everything clear now?
    #
    Idiota 10 years ago
    Breathe! Aetas! Breathe! don't pass out on meeeeee!
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Take it easy, Idiota. I'll take care of it.
    #
    Zombie 10 years ago
    Hey, it's not my fault the AETAS is stagnant. Cejer and Shingo seem to have dropped the ball, big time.
    #
    MageKing17 10 years ago
    Is it a bad sign when you can't remember anything about your characters, beyond their names?
    #
    Idiota 10 years ago
    Yes.

    Also, I have been thinking. What if the UFDC were to invent a device that creates a huge gravity well over an interval so small that it doesn't affect the matter around it, but big enough for some sort of computer to pick up the exact locations of the matter around it? This would surely negate the stealth capabilities of The Dalgûn (Over a certain distance). Of course, this type of sensor would amplify the gravity well at a rate of 10 per second, to create some sort of radar.

    This sort of technology would require an entire ship to be dedicated to it to be used over long range, but every capital ship could have it to detect stealth plated warheads and fighters around it and such. I think it sounds like a fair counter measurement against the Dalgûn, and if I can think of it, surely some scientist way in the future can too.
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    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Do you mean that the computer picks up tiny irregularities in the gravity field and calculates the source, or that the gravity field manipulates the ships' gravity, thus making it easier for the gravimetric sensors to pick them up? For if it's the first example you're thinking on, an artificial gravity well might not be necessary.
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    MageKing17 10 years ago
    He is, in essance, forcing a massive increase in gravitic activity for a very small interval. In this interval, the ship detects anything that responds strongly (I.E. has a mass larger than spacedust) and determines its location, therefore finding ships which are otherwise hidden.

    Unless a ship can somehow detect and nullify the effect of the gravity well, this would work very well. However, the possibility of someone with an equal level of technology doing just that is quite high.
    #
    Crazy 10 years ago
    I figured out a system to detect them awhile ago... it's just not that fancy... And a bit more expensive... but hey, there's no way it can possibly fail!
    #
    Cejer 10 years ago
    Actually it couldn't work at all, but that is beside the immediate point I wish to make. I am quitting AETAS. Actually, I quit a while ago but now I'm making it official. AETAS has always been geared for the enjoyment of single characters; it is so biased against empire characters that one could not participate based exclusively upon empire actions. As ensuring that the rest of you maintain continuity has become much more of a chore, AETAS is no longer acceptable to me in terms of time invested to enjoyment received.
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Ok, what shall happen with your empire now that you're gone?
    #
    Zombie 10 years ago
    I think it doesn't really matter. The AETAS has pretty much died, anyway. I do have a question though, Cejer...

    What would help improve the AETAS, in your opinion? You don't have to totally quit the AETAS, just say you're done for this... uhh... session? Instance? Something. Remember: We anticipated restarts and such, as we don't really have a very definite set of rules that work well.

    What I would like is some input on what could be done to fix the AETAS and to make it more enjoyable for empire and single players alike.
    #
    The Gemini 10 years ago
    Personally, I would like to see something that forced player interactions. We should cut the forplay, and go right to the combat. Somebody should come up with something that created a polarisation of the galactic forces, and sparked a major war. Perhaps the removal of powerfull npcs was a mistacke?

    At least we should inhibit separate storylines. Let everybody follow the some story!
    #
    Cejer 10 years ago
    The problem is with the passage of time. Single characters are at their best when time passes slowly, even when traveling an individual can do a lot within an hour. For example, just by calling a number of contacts that individual can form a team to track down a stolen object. Individual to individual interaction can be best measured in hours or days.

    Empires operate on a very different time scale. Construction of new ships takes months or years, and the conversations between individuals have limited effect upon the empire. For empires an hour is just long enough for a carrier to refuel bombers for another attack run. It’s more than an individual can do, but it’s less significant to the big picture. Empire to empire interaction can be best measured in weeks or months.

    I think you can see the difficulty in fitting both single and empire characters into the same role play. Either empires are resigned to the background as their fleets move slowly about, or single characters are no more than interesting footnotes that show up occasionally without any real impact.

    It is my opinion that any restart should focus entirely on either single characters or empire characters. The area of the role play should also be limited. A single city would be more than enough space for a single character role play. After the last two AETAS incarnations it might be best to try a smaller scale.
    #
    Idiota 10 years ago
    I agree with everything you say Cejer. I just never had the oppertuniy to formulate what you just said.
    #
    Murska 10 years ago
    "Cejer" said:

    A single city would be more than enough space for a single character role play. After the last two AETAS incarnations it might be best to try a smaller scale.


    I think even I could try to roleplay with that kind of a scale. It could be two cities fightning, too.
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    The Gemini 10 years ago
    It is a good idea, but when we have such small areas such as one city, we will need much more rules, and a premade storyline to follow, or else it can get hard to create a working story. I believe a planet would work, or perhaps one system. Apart from that, I think Cejer's idea will work.
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    Idiota 10 years ago
    I don't think that I'll be joining that single character RP, should it ever come. I am a bit addicted to Open RP at the moment...
    #
    Grim Reaper 10 years ago
    So... How will AETAS be changed, and when will the restart happen?
    #
    Murska 10 years ago
    Just to think what has come so far of the random madness of EETEE start. Just yesterday I was reading it, I read about 30 pages. It was really fun. Pity that the start was deleted, as it would've been extremely fun to read. Plus, it would've reached 100 pages. SOMEONE should have posted in it, only few pages more, and we could say we've had a 100 pages thread. That'd be nice.
    I only hope it'll continue, at least in one form. And perhaps, one day, we HAVE a 100 pages thread. (The ultimate goal!)
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    MageKing17 10 years ago
    Yes, the EETEE was quite fun, in it's day... I have to admit, though, it needed to end. It was kinda going nowhere at the end. Before the end, it was going somewhere, but we took a detour to "WTF" land.
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