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  • AETAS Discussion Thread

    Lord Windgrace 9 years ago
    sooooooo.....i searched about 20 sites, and still know only a little of it,and what is EEToEE, by the way?

    And i asked, that someone expain´s it to me, meaning:
    A) Tells me (near-) Exactly what this is
    or
    B) Tell´s me exactly which site will contain the information
    and/or
    C) Give´s me a Link to a Site which contain´s the information
    And not just say´s, that i shouldn´t look through all 40 sites but only 20 of them, no offense

    [Edit] Thanks (didn´t wanted to post only one word^^)
    #
    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "Lord Windgrace" said:
    sooooooo.....i searched about 20 sites, and still know only a little of it,and what is EEToEE, by the way?

    And i asked, that someone expain´s it to me, meaning:
    A) Tells me (near-) Exactly what this is
    or
    B) Tell´s me exactly which site will contain the information
    and/or
    C) Give´s me a Link to a Site which contain´s the information
    And not just say´s, that i shouldn´t look through all 40 sites but only 20 of them, no offense
    A) A Steampunk-themed forum roleplaying game.

    As for B) and C), there's only one site (excluding the forums themselves) with information on AETAS, and that's for the old one.

    Also, EEToEE (short for Extremely Evil Thread of Extreme Evilness) is similar to AETAS, but much more free-form. It's also dead as a doornail.
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    Shingo 9 years ago
    Again, Zombie, I'll ask my question: If the very reason that we decided to go to steampunk was because we wanted to try something new and different, then why is it okay for us to basically say "Oh, Steampunk? 'course it can do that. It can do anything any other kind of technology can do." ? I don't think it is okay. You went on this whole technobabble spree and completely disregarded my question, of why use Steampunk. And don't try to claim that we've limited ourselves by steampunk. After seeing the gadgets and toys that some of us seem to think we're allowed, I don't think so. I've yet to see an in depth description of why and how people's devices work - No, I don't want to see any such descriptions, I'm just pointing out that your statement of:
    It is very different from modern technology and it /is/ a challenge to figure out how to make effective devices in this setting.
    Is thus far non-existent in that no one has done that. Why don't I care if these things could actually work? Because this is obviously a fictional setting and we have obviously decided to disregard complete adherence to the laws of reality.

    In closing, if we're going to set the world as possessing the level of technology that we're gravitating towards, then I say that we have no justifiable reason to use steampunk, and are merely adding a new coat of paint to the same technological setup that we used in both aetas and EEToEE.
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    The Gemini 9 years ago
    When did electrical lights become high tech? The most advanced electrical gadget would be a primitive radio. The steam machines are superior to electrizity in nearly all aspects in this RP.
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    Murska 9 years ago
    I think his point is that steam machines in the RP are becoming too similar to the technology today. He's saying, I think, that there's no use to just say "This is a steam made space complex with laser weapons using steam defending against steam-based missiles with steam based nanocomputers." It'd just be the same than before.

    EDIT: By the way, for anyone stupid enough not to notice, the "" part above has been exaggerated(sp?) a lot.
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    Shingo 9 years ago
    Thank you, Murska, thank you. You have an amazing ability to cut through the crap and get to the point.
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    Murska 9 years ago
    Well, that's a first time I've heard THAT compliment before. Thanks.
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    I share your skeptisism and doupt on the Tech matters Shingo, but I am more worried about itemization and powerplaying, witch was very evident in ye olde AETAS(I read the whole thing).
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    Cejer 9 years ago
    I've watched this Steampunk setting mutate in to a monstrosity, and I'd like to inject a little bit of reason into what level of technology is actually feasible.

    Steam engines work on the same physical laws as internal combustion engines. Burn fuel, heat something up and harness the resulting pressure. The difference is that an internal combustion engine requires slightly more refined fuel, and it would operate much more efficiently.

    Additionally, steam engines suffer a severe limitation in terms of logistics. The amount of water needed to operate even a weak engine restricts such technology from being applied to personal transport.
    Also important to note is the heat pollution caused by steam engines. A city that tried to allow personal steam transports would quickly become covered in uncomfortably warm fog. Exhaust from various fuels would mix with this fog to create a thick, oppressive cloud hovering over the city.
    Think about the dirtiest modern city you know today. Now imagine if each car in that city produced three times as much exhaust. Next, imagine what would change if the city were facing a water crisis. That imaginary city would be typical of an advanced steam-powered city.

    Now, does this make such an advanced steam civilation impossible in fiction? Probably not, but the creators of such a setting have a lot of work ahead of them figuring out reasonable ways that would enable society to exist. And please, refrain from the "we can just change the laws of physics." That statement contains as much use as saying "a wizard did it."
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    So the things that have been invented that make steam engines more efficient than regular IC engines are not allowed, eh?
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    Shingo 9 years ago
    To what things are you referring? Should I go look at the wikipedia or something?
    #
    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "Shingo" said:
    Should I go look at the wikipedia or something?
    Yes.

    Mainly the stuff about efficiency in the main article of Steam Engine.
    #
    Thaif 9 years ago
    And of course the Wikipedia article about Steam Cars.
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    Shingo 9 years ago
    I suggest viewing the article referring to steam engines.

    Also, I can only guess at what Grim was referring to (Could you perhaps give me a more precise idea of where to look, perhaps a link or two?), since I was unable to locate what he had mentioned when I was viewing both the steampunk and the steam engine articles.
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "Shingo" said:
    Also, I can only guess at what Grim was referring to (Could you perhaps give me a more precise idea of where to look, perhaps a link or two?), since I was unable to locate what he had mentioned when I was viewing both the steampunk and the steam engine articles.
    I already TOLD you. The article about Steam Engine, in the Efficiency subthingy.

    And since you didn't get it the FIRST time, here's the bleedin' link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine#Efficiency">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine#Efficiency</a><!-- m -->
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    The Gemini 9 years ago
    Could we please snap out of this realism discussion? We don't have to care about steam efficiency and such things, this is RP, not the real world. We do infact have to possibility to pretend that steam technology is efficient and powerfull, without changing the laws of physics. BOTH the original AETAS and the restart was prolonged by such discussions, and now you doom this RP to the same fate! So can we stop this realism discussion and PLAY?
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "The Gemini" said:
    Could we please snap out of this realism discussion? We don't have to care about steam efficiency and such things, this is RP, not the real world. We do infact have to possibility to pretend that steam technology is efficient and powerfull, without changing the laws of physics. BOTH the original AETAS and the restart was prolonged by such discussions, and now you doom this RP to the same fate! So can we stop this realism discussion and PLAY?
    Quite true. This IS, after all, Science FICTION, not Science FACT.

    By the way, shall we continue using the same "ruleset" as in the previous AETAS, or perhaps introduce a GM into the picture somehow?
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    "Grim Reaper" said:
    Quite true. This IS, after all, Science FICTION, not Science FACT.

    Right! That is exactly what I was thinking. And on the subject of GM: How would it work, conserning the game mechanics?
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "Thaif" said:
    Right! That is exactly what I was thinking. And on the subject of GM: How would it work, conserning the game mechanics?
    Either in one of the three ways described by MageKing in the Proper Forum RP Discussion thread, or in some other way (suggestions?).
    #
    Zombie 9 years ago
    I suggest a new GM-ing style that should address Shingo's concerns with overabundant hyper-advanced steam technologies. We do not have to adhere to the laws of reality, no, but we do have to adhere to the laws of our own world.

    I think Shingo missed the main point in my response to his rather angry post, mostly because he was disregarding mostly everything I said (it seems) simply because he feels I did not address his concern. The point of my post is that our steam technology SHOULD NOT be able to do everything that modern technology should, and it SHOULD be able to do things that modern technology can not. For instance: I think we all can agree that in our world, steam technology is not only the most efficient energy source (note I said "most efficient" not "hyper efficient", "most" is relative) but it is also mostly mechanical. Thusly, it is rather impossible to create things like energy shields and lasers and such, unless of course you can SOMEHOW figure out how to do that with mechanical parts. Even things like the Steam Cores (Again, Steamboy reference) are limited.

    Their steam source may be limitless (Yes, this is science FICTION) but it also is pressurized, and if a Steam Core's thick plating is punctured then it will VIOLENTLY explode. They are also very heavy, so any machinery utilizing them as a power source has to be able to lift them in addition to it's regular load. Steam Core machinery also has to be able to stand the immense pressure a Steam Core can create, so just popping one into your steamship and flying off isn't viable as you'll burst valves and shatter pipes as soon as you twist the valve to activate the Steam Core. Also, limitless steam does NOT mean unlimited power. You cannot, for instance, power a gargantuan behemoth walker (throwback to Steamboy and the Tower) with only one Steam Core. They are a limitless source with a limited output.

    If you think of steam weaponry, then you are pretty much limited to projectile weapons and melee weapons. Steam missiles are possible, but they would have rather limited range and would be expensive to produce as they would, essentially, need high-pressure steam stored for propulsion.

    Steam technology in this RP, as I see it, is not supposed to be a "replacement" for modern technology, but a sort of alternate branch on the tech tree of life that was taken by this world. Also, if we don't want people to make completely unreasonable things in this RP, then all of us need to police it. This brings me back to my GM-ing suggestion.

    I suggest that we all function as somewhat of a GM. In the EEToEE we tried self-policing, but that failed. In the first AETAS we tried a council, but that failed. I propose we try policing each other in addition to ourselves for this incarnation of the AETAS. Not only should you think "How would this work mechanically?" whenever you have a specific device in mind, but "How is it powered? How is it controlled?" and you should realize that, should someone challenge something you have, saying it is unreasonable, that you might very well find yourself without that device. Note that this does not always mean you need to back up in RP. You could simply say that it was a failed attempt at a device. But if we intend to keep the technology standards of this RP to a certain level, then we have to actually enforce that.

    This means no whining, no begging, and no negotiating. If something will NOT work in the scope of this world we're making, then it will NOT work and no amount of negotiating or explaining will make it any different.

    So anyone planning on making a laser-sighted steam rifle? Well, 'fraid that won't work, Chief. Accuracy and precision with steam-powered weapons is not easy to attain and I don't think anyone can hope for laser-precision.

    So far, I don't think any of our devices violate the laws of the world as I see them, so I don't think anything needs challenging. Of course, we should probably agree on how we should all see the laws of the world as it is likely that I don't have all of the laws and that I am probably mistaken or misinterpreting some of them.

    So let's cut the realism crap and draw up the major rules that we feel need to be defined to make our science fiction live up to its potential.
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    Shingo 9 years ago
    The reason I believe this "realism crap" to be so important, is due to it's role in the death of both EEToEE and Aetas. In both cases, overabundant and overpowered technology brought them to a crashing halt.

    The reason for that, I conclude, is because the limits on said technology were never defined and everyone tried to get away with as much as they could, which in effect, reduced the use of those limitations to the point where they didn't mean a thing.

    We need to have limits, and they need to be concrete. None of this "If you can find a way to bypass them, then you're golden" stuff. Those limits need to be very clearly defined.

    To finish things, I suggest the nomination of a game master, and a firm decision upon what kind of tech we will have.

    PS. Might I suggest taking this to a new thread, since technically it's no longer Aetas that we be discussing? If no-one objects I'll start the new thread asap.
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    Cejer 9 years ago
    Sigh. I don't know why I bother.

    How many of you know what "verisimilitude" is, before looking it up? It's a big word. It's a rare word. It's the second most important word for role-playing. The only word that trumps it is "enjoyment."

    In a role-playing setting actions must have believable causes and effects. The technology must a purpose for existing, and it must have a valid reason for not being outdated. The world must have consistency with itself. The players must be able to apply problem solving skills to the imaginary situation. This is something that was absent from the end of the EEToEE and from AETAS.

    Since the players only have first hand experience in one world, the setting must have all important differences from our world clearly and explicitly defined from the beginning. The implications of these changes must be thought through completely, for even a minor inconsistency can thrust a player from role-playing into metagaming, an often undesired state.

    The believability of the setting taking shape is severely limited. It is my opinion that this is due, mainly, to our attempts at a cooperative creation of a setting. Everyone who has contributed had different ideas about how this setting would be different from our world. These ideas have produced many horrendously inconsistent details about this world.

    Zombie, for example, has this idea about Steam Cores. Certainly I had no idea to include such devices. As such, the existence of Steam Cores removes the problem of logistics that I brought up. However, the introduction of Steam Cores has introduced a number of other difficulties to work through. How much power does the first exploiter of the Steam Core have? Why is there any reason for conflict in a world with multiple infinite power sources? How has the water vapor from the Steam Cores affected global climate? These questions, and any others that arise, would need to have believable answers.

    So, you should see how solving one problem (the logistics of steam power) brings up many others in a natural way. Some decisions quickly cease to create problems, other decisions can produce a seemingly endless branching tree of problems. A stable and completed framework is necessary to actually role-play in for an extended period of time. Yet, the players must be mutually aware of this framework in order to participate.

    This transitions into another point that must be addressed. This point requires little explanation on my part, but much thinking on yours. Why are we role-playing? What do we want our characters to do, and how does the setting provide a realistic way for them to fulfill our goals for them?
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    "Shingo" said:
    PS. Might I suggest taking this to a new thread, since technically it's no longer Aetas that we be discussing? If no-one objects I'll start the new thread asap.
    If it's general Forum RP stuff, just use the one I already made.

    Also, if we are to have a certain person/group to define the world fully before starting the game, I propose, nay, DEMAND that Thaif is to be in the decision making (he's the one who introduced me to Steampunk, so I trust him greatly on this matter).
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    I bow humbly to the fervent words of Grim.

    On the subject of "Steam Core": It should not be unlimited, because it makes no sense. Example: Nuclear power is cheap, quite abundant, less polluting way of making energy, but it definetly has serious drawbacks: The radioactive waste, potential threat of a meltdown and the hazardous operation of mining Uranium.

    Taking this real world example in to account a "Steam Core" should not be infinite, but rather a very formitable source of long lasting power, but highly volatile and very difficult to control or use in an efficient manner, not to mention they weight like the 7 sins and once it has been depleted it CANNOT be "refueled", a new one will have to be made to once again to have the power of an "Steam Core" available. This of course takes A LOT of time and effort.

    And lastly on the "verisimilitude": Thanks for the educating experience. I did not know what it meant before I looked it up. Teh All Knowing Wikipedia had this interesting article on this.

    "Teh Wiki" said:
    Suspension of disbelief

    Verisimilitude is also the willingness to suspend one's disbelief (even if the events or fictitious representations might otherwise be considered preposterous) when the intensity of the story or interest in the characters overrides the need to believe that things are scientifically correct.

    Though I still heavily ephasize the Powerplay and Itemization issues, that seem to be a serious consern for many.

    Gotta go, I iz runnin' late from Work.
    #
    Zombie 9 years ago
    I see the introduction of overabundant realism as a portent of the death of the new AETAS. Yes, perhaps you should review the problems we've encountered in the EEToEE and the AETAS's first incarnation. The AETAS had it's own "realism", as in we had our own world with its own rules. The reason it failed, as I see it, was because we kept editing the AETAS's already flimsy realism with real-world realism.

    If this is to work, then the AETAS /must/ have its own rules and laws. GENERAL rules and laws. Climate? That is only important in long term. Unless we are playing over hundreds or thousands of years, then current climates are all we must worry about.

    Of course, I had a lot more to write but Shingo and I were talking and, well, it became apparent that me and my ideas seem to be rather unwanted here. Instead, everyone seems to want a hyper-detailed environment with way too many details to pay attention to. Just don't dare ask me why people are losing interest in the RP later on.

    I quit. I don't want to RP in an environment where we're worrying about freaking climates and where people are intentionally limiting not only technology but creativity.

    Enjoy your anal-retentive RP. Make sure you don't contradict ANYTHING you post or anything. I'm gone now, don't worry about whether or not I'll be back. This is only the third RP attempt that has failed in my eyes. Hope you all are up for a fourth.
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    Cejer 9 years ago
    Before I begin, I would also say that Thaif should be in charge of defining the world. I go a step further, and say that his decisions should be the absolute law of this setting during the entire role-play.

    Zombie, there is one paragraph that must be talked about in your post. Even without Zombie's further input, this paragraph is of utmost importance.

    "Zombie" said:
    I quit. I don't want to RP in an environment where we're worrying about freaking climates and where people are intentionally limiting not only technology but creativity.
    (Emphasis added.)

    Right there, what I have bolded, Zombie advises against implementing a key truth of our world. Limitation. It is a needed facet of our world. Without limitation, we would have nothing of worth. It is only through choosing one thing over another that value is applied. And it is those things which are hardest to obtain, those which require the greatest sacrifice, that are worth the most.

    The challenge, and thrill, of life comes from striving to attain that which seems out of reach. Joy comes from pushing against our boundaries and making progress. But if progress was a foregone conclusion, there would be no reason to celebrate it. It is by struggling and succeeding that satisfaction is gained.

    The same concepts are essential to an RP. Without an element of risk, the rewards cease to matter. Without limits to what can be done, doing is meaningless. Without failure, success is without purpose. The RP should involve struggle, it should involve frustration, and it should involve disappointment.

    Rewards, success, and realized goals should be present. But, without salt, endless sugar quickly becomes sickening. So too, a role-play without limitations would become dull.

    Creativity is important, yes. But is creativity without limits anything more than madness? Isn't the challenge of being creative in trying to circumvent obstacles to your initial vision? Mankind has long had ideas. Some were easy to act on, some were difficult, and many are downright impossible. But even among the impossible ideas, we have managed to struggle around our limitations and come close.
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    I am humbled in your trust in my(tea fuelled)reasoning.

    Cejer has just compiled together my whole stance on this thing, though I would not be as "hardlined" realist in some matters, but in all
    We think alike.

    Sad that Zombie decided to abrubtly quit, though I can understand the frustration that this seemingly endless talking can create.

    Just on a thought: If the Steam Core would be infinite and it exploded, wouldn't it explode infinitely?
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    The Gemini 9 years ago
    Look what you have done! This exactly what I was warning you guys about, if you drown this RP in endless and pointless discussions, it WILL die. I am actually thinking of following Zombie's example and quit. Could we just start this damn RP and set the rules WHILE we play?
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    This discussion would have still come to pass sooner or later, and now that it has been settled(In my opinion) we should start.
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    By the way, what exactly ARE the limits?
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    Thaif 9 years ago
    Limits? Why, your imagination is the limit, but do not step on the slippery slope of powerplay. I hope this does not instill a fear of "divine" Retribution should you even fart the wrong way, but action will be taken if such suspicious matters present themselfs.

    If in doubt, just ask.

    PS. I don't know if I am the "GM" yet, but this would be my stance.
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    Grim Reaper 9 years ago
    Before we start, could Gemini please stitch up that map?
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    The Gemini 9 years ago
    Well, my computer is in for repairs, and my mom's computer have MSPaint, so I can't use my precious Photoshop. So unless you want Paint quality, I think its best someone with photoshop or a simillar program make the changes. BTW, I have to post info on the Areons before any changes are done.
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    Zombie 9 years ago
    Oh, now your imagination is the limit? Sure. Let's have a little talk about that.

    From what I gather, neither Shingo nor Cejer think that "your imagination is the limit". No. Instead they seem to want stringent limits on steam technology growth, in addition to rules governing this steam technology. I had no problem with the rules, but the reason I left was because Shingo was babbling to me about "steamcars" and such, in addition to "medieval steampunk". While I don't think "medieval steampunk" is a bad idea, I think that the unfounded fear that somehow someone can make a steam "superweapon" is vastly ignorant. Why do that? It would ruin the point of the RP. If you even read my idea on how we should GM this game, then you should realize that the majority of the policing is up to us. Not one, all-powerful body that can shape everything to their will. Not a "council" that, when it all came down to it, took weeks to make a single decision. We need to police ourselves, remain reasonable, and help others stay within reasonable confines of the RP world. For all your talk about limit, Cejer, I'm surprised you haven't realized that we basically have to learn to limit ourselves. What do you think kept me from giving myself magical steam-powers or some asinine thing? I realized it wouldn't make the RP enjoyable. Imposing vastly asinine, or overly stringent, limits on people only serves to do exactly what you think it will prevent. It will bleed fun and enjoyability because there is no point to try to do or obtain anything when limits are set so that it is impossible to achieve. Being a good RP-er means knowing when to make your character struggle, when to make you character succeed, and when your character needs to fail. You have to be your character and realize when you need a challenge, or when you need a change or a new variable in the equation of your character's life. If the point is to have fun, Cejer, then what makes you think that your idea of "fun" is the same as others' ideas? What makes you so able to tell us all what to do and how to do it and what we can and cannot do? Do you know our characters beyond what we've posted here? Do you have some sort of power to be able to discern what various people find enjoyable? All I see is various people trying to impose their ideas of "fun" on this RP, trying to twist it into their own personal haven. I simply want to simplify things, to possibly make things more enjoyable. I want people to limit themselves and realize when they are being unreasonable or when they are being too power-hungry. I think it's simple as, unless we want to design something with complexities like D&D, that would be the only feasible way that everyone would agree upon to police the RP. People have to concede certain things and they'll gain certain things, but everyone should be having fun.

    The one and ONLY reason I left was exactly because imagination was NOT going to be the limit. I was being told what I could and could not have, even though what I had was well within reasonable confines. I was insulted about my idea of borrowing the Steam Core idea from Steamboy, and I had the fact that Rhenna's weapon mimics Ivy's sword-whip weapon from Soul Calibur. I don't see what is wrong with using ideas I like, but figuring out how they'd work in various settings and times with different materials. I never said I invented either the Steam Core or the whipsword, yet it was treated as if I did and it was thrown in my face repeatedly for no real reason.

    My intent with Steam Cores was to provide a way for steam vehicles and such to be powered without having to have gargantuan, inefficient, insatiable engines that belch black smoke and steam in great amounts just to achieve relatively small power amounts. My idea was that we could all be reasonable people and use Steam Cores for what they were intended as: A way to power vehicles or power stations or such, not a weapon of war or a source of infinite power. Sure, you can power a gun with steam, using valves and such to pressurize steam and use it to launch a projectile, but a Steam Core would only allow that to work. It would not power it up and, eventually, you WOULD run out of ammunition. Using a Steam Core itself as a "steam-thrower" weapon, to boil your enemies in hot steam would be vastly inefficient as steam cools quickly when exposed to air. It would also blast you back quite a way as the steam in a Steam Core is highly pressurized. That was the point of having a (to our characters, at least) unlimited generator of steam. It would allow us to further focus on actually RPing and letting our imaginations create steam-powered contraptions. It was not a "power play" or an attempt to make anyone or anything "overpowered". It never was, and it is hurtful for any of you who know me to think that.

    The thing I don't think any of you realize is that we don't use steam tech much in the modern world because it is highly inefficient. It requires massive amounts of coal or some other form of heat source, in addition to a constant supply of water. If we were going to have a realistic RP, then the steam tech would be the same. In short, it wouldn't work. Or perhaps it would, but it would need so much upkeep that we would need countless amounts of engineers and such to keep something as conceptually simple as a steam-powered land vehicle moving. Remember that we had steam-powered ships in the world a while ago. They required large, inefficient fuel sources and large amounts of water intake. Cejer and, possibly, Shingo are the only people who seem to realize just how inefficient steam technology is and, quite to my surprise, they seem to be the two who oppose my ideas the most. Quite ironic when my ideas are to simplify the RP so it is enjoyable and not as horridly over-complicated as Shingo and Cejer seem to want things to be.

    I got tired of being attacked and when creativity and imagination are deemed to be not very important in an RP. Kind of silly when an RP basically IS creativity and imagination, not stringent limits and guidelines so strict they give you very little to choose from. I think my hasty and angry resignation from the RP should give you an indication, Cejer, Shingo, and others, that some of us do not find endless rulemongering fun.

    Maybe you should trust in people who have been involved in the creation of not one but two RP threads. Trust in us to want this RP to be greater than the EEToEE and the 1st AETAS combined. Don't make us leave something we love because you wrongly seem to think that all we want is power and control and to dominate everyone else in the RP. It is insulting and hurtful that you, basically, left me no choice but to resign from the RP and if this post doesn't make you at least think, or doesn't spark some particles of creativity and imagination and will in your mind, then maybe I'll just leave altogether and stay gone. I don't want to be part of an RP where primary players lack the will to make things work so they rely on limiting creativity and imagination under the guise of "making things more worthwhile".

    It's an RP. It is designed purely to have fun, not to gain anything (except creativity and imagination, maybe?) or win anything. There is no true purpose to an RP beyond that. What happens in an RP quite literally stays in the RP. The RP world does not exist except in our hearts and minds. Keep that in mind and don't get delusioned about what the point of an RP is. I fight for what I think is right and, when it comes to entertainment, I tend to take it harder as I like to live to make people smile and have fun.

    I hope my points are clearer now.
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    Zombie 9 years ago
    "Cejer" said:
    Right there, what I have bolded, Zombie advises against implementing a key truth of our world. Limitation. It is a needed facet of our world. Without limitation, we would have nothing of worth. It is only through choosing one thing over another that value is applied. And it is those things which are hardest to obtain, those which require the greatest sacrifice, that are worth the most.

    The challenge, and thrill, of life comes from striving to attain that which seems out of reach. Joy comes from pushing against our boundaries and making progress. But if progress was a foregone conclusion, there would be no reason to celebrate it. It is by struggling and succeeding that satisfaction is gained.

    May I just say, also, how hilarious this was to me when I realized that you used me as an example of why we needed limits when I think Rhenna was one of the most limited characters out there. Just to get off her island she needs to travel through a wolves den, retrieve a steam core, and build a vehicle that can get her around.

    You talk about limits, Cejer, but again, the only thing there to limit us, ultimately, is ourselves. Talking about implementing limits is all well and good and I think a good move would be "basic electronics only" but it tends to break down when you just want limits, limits, and more limits. You also, again, seem to attack me as if I want a limitless world. I don't. That would be the EEToEE all over again. I should know. I was in it.
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