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  • Nomic

    MageKing17 8 years ago
    Well, the incentive to create proposals is intrinsic at the moment... the only way to win is to not die.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    But your chance of dying becomes higher when you post proposals. So, err... That's not good for the game. Oh well, if no-one has the balls, then it'll be up to me next turn I suppose.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    Overview of this turn.

    Accepted proposals:
    Amarth: Everyone who is inactive for an entire turn loses 60 HP. You are considered active if you post in this thread or make a dice roll.
    Passed with 4-0.

    The proposals of Idiota and E_net4 were not accepted, which means they lose 20 HP per rule 1.6. But they'll get 10 back at the start of the following turn.

    Dice rolls:
    Amarth: 4
    Idiota: 6 * 80% = 4.8, thus 4.

    Updating first post. Next turn at 00:01 GMT.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    I thought I had dice roll'd. -.-
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    I thought I had dice roll'd. -.-
    Are you sure? I don't have any results in the bot or in logs. Of course, it's not failure-proof...
    #
    MageKing17 8 years ago
    First post needs to be updated, Idiota and E_net4 have 90, not 80 HP.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    According to the rules, we're now playing again.

    First proposal!
    If a player's proposal is accepted, the player receives 5HP times (the number of "yes" votes) and 5 points.
    #
    Grim Reaper 8 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    First proposal!
    If a player's proposal wins, the player receives 5HP times (the number of "yes" votes) and 5 points.
    Proposals don't win, players do. Unless they lose. Or there's a tie.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    Happy now?
    #
    Grim Reaper 8 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    Happy now?
    No.
    #
    MageKing17 8 years ago
    For one thing, the number of "yes" votes is by no means guaranteed to be 5. 5 isn't even the minimum required to pass, 4 is. If you change the proposal to say "an amount of HP and points equal to the number of Yes votes", I'll vote for it.
    #
    Crazy 8 years ago
    That IS the proposal, actually. Let me put some symbols instead of the words there and...

    5HP * [# of "yes" votes] 

    In addition: 5 points
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    "MageKing17" said:
    For one thing, the number of "yes" votes is by no means guaranteed to be 5. 5 isn't even the minimum required to pass, 4 is. If you change the proposal to say "an amount of HP and points equal to the number of Yes votes", I'll vote for it.
    I don't quite see what you're going on about here, and I don't like that change. It'd reduce the proposal to something very minor. I mean, last two turns, proposals were accepted by 4-0. For E's proposal, that would mean 20HP and 5 points, for your suggested change, that'd mean 4HP and 4 points. Not quite worth taking the risk of losing 20HP IMO.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    Also, I don't have the right to change my proposal after being submitted. (1.5)
    I find this rule good enough this time.
    #
    MageKing17 8 years ago
    Sorry, I missed the "times" in the original post.

    I propose that 1.5, being just fine before the addition of HP rules, but now being slightly counter-productive, be modified to read thusly: "A proposal can not be modified during a turn unless it has not been voted on yet. There can be discussion about a proposal, but once voting occurs, the proposal cannot be changed. A proposal that did not pass is always allowed as a new proposal on subsequent turns."
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    I have to agree with that proposal. It'll let us discuss on future proposals.
    I'd like to vote right now, but today's still an odd day GMT.
    #
    MageKing17 8 years ago
    I vote Yes on E_net4's proposal.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    E_net4 and MK: yes.

    My proposal is pretty huge, but that's mainly because there are some dangerous border cases. It consists of 3 parts. If you don't get all of it or if I'm unclear (quite probable with such a monster), please ask.

    At any time during a turn, points can be used to attack or heal players (including yourself). Each point adds or takes away 5HP instantly. To use this ability, post in the thread, something like "I heal X with 4 points for 20HP".
    Your point amount cannot be below zero at the end of the turn or you're out of the game. This is checked as very last step of a turn, thus after adding points for dice rolls, and perhaps proposals and whatever other stuff we come up with. Also, to prevent suicide bombers, you cannot go that low that it's theoretically impossible to regain enough points by the end of the turn to get back on zero (this is currently -6, or -11 if E's proposal passes).
    To prevent hoarding of points, the player with the most points at the end of the turn (after adding points for stuff) has to give away 5 of his points to other players before the next turn starts. The player can choose on how to do this: give 2 points to X, 1 to Y and 2 to Z, for example. If the player with the highest score does not have 5 points, take all points and do the same thing with that amount of points. If a player thinks he might be the one with most points at the end of a tun, he can tell us how to redistribute the points before the turn ends. If he fails to say how to do this, his points are redistributed to the players with the lowest score in the following (fair) way: if there are N players with the lowest score, give each player floor( 5/N ) points and distribute the rest of the points randomly between the N players without selecting someone twice.

    I think this opens up loads of tactical possibilities. And I hope it doesn't open up loads of abuses.

    EDIT (slightly kidding): suggested terminology: HP = citizens, points = nukes, redistribution = SALT (kind of). Though I'm not sure how the healing would work with this setting.
    #
    Grim Reaper 8 years ago
    Voting YES on Amarth's, MageKing17's and E_net4's proposals.
    #
    Murska 8 years ago
    Voting yes on Amarth's proposal in order to avoid -60hp. I've got influenza from confirmation camp, so I'll be veeeery inactive for a while.

    I propose that a player can go to a vacation mode for a preset amount of time, which he must state in this thread beforehand, and during this vacation mode he cannot gain or lose points or HP, nor can he vote or propose. The minimum time is one week.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    "Murska" said:
    Voting yes on Amarth's proposal in order to avoid -60hp. I've got influenza from confirmation camp, so I'll be veeeery inactive for a while.
    Ouch. Get well soon.
    I propose that a player can go to a vacation mode for a preset amount of time, which he must state in this thread beforehand, and during this vacation mode he cannot gain or lose points or HP, nor can he vote or propose. The minimum time is one week.
    Now, we could be evil and reject this proposal...

    I'm not quite sure about putting people in stasis. Current rules might be okay for that, but future rules might impose an advantage for people who are on vacation. Though we should probably just keep that in mind for future rules.

    I vote yes for Murska's proposal.
    #
    Grim Reaper 8 years ago
    "Murska" said:
    I propose that a player can go to a vacation mode for a preset amount of time, which he must state in this thread beforehand, and during this vacation mode he cannot gain or lose points or HP, nor can he vote or propose. The minimum time is one week.
    Vote YES
    #
    Idiota 8 years ago
    Yes to Amarth, E_net4 and MageKing17. Oh and Murska.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    Wow, were now being quite positive.
    I vote Yes to all of the proposals: Amarth, MageKing17 and Murska
    #
    MageKing17 8 years ago
    I vote Yes to Amarth and Murska's proposals.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    Overview of this turn.

    Accepted proposals:
    Amarth: At any time during a turn, points can be used to attack or heal players (including yourself). Each point adds or takes away 5HP instantly. To use this ability, post in the thread, something like "I heal X with 4 points for 20HP".
    Your point amount cannot be below zero at the end of the turn or you're out of the game. This is checked as very last step of a turn, thus after adding points for dice rolls, and perhaps proposals and whatever other stuff we come up with. Also, to prevent suicide bombers, you cannot go that low that it's theoretically impossible to regain enough points by the end of the turn to get back on zero (this is currently -6, or -11 if E's proposal passes).
    To prevent hoarding of points, the player with the most points at the end of the turn (after adding points for stuff) has to give away 5 of his points to other players before the next turn starts. The player can choose on how to do this: give 2 points to X, 1 to Y and 2 to Z, for example. If the player with the highest score does not have 5 points, take all points and do the same thing with that amount of points. If a player thinks he might be the one with most points at the end of a tun, he can tell us how to redistribute the points before the turn ends. If he fails to say how to do this, his points are redistributed to the players with the lowest score in the following (fair) way: if there are N players with the lowest score, give each player floor( 5/N ) points and distribute the rest of the points randomly between the N players without selecting someone twice.
    Passed with 5-0.

    E_net4: If a player's proposal is accepted, the player receives 5HP times (the number of "yes" votes) and 5 points.
    Passed with 4-0.

    MageKing17: I propose that 1.5, being just fine before the addition of HP rules, but now being slightly counter-productive, be modified to read thusly: "A proposal can not be modified during a turn unless it has not been voted on yet. There can be discussion about a proposal, but once voting occurs, the proposal cannot be changed. A proposal that did not pass is always allowed as a new proposal on subsequent turns."
    Passed with 4-0.

    Murska: A player can go to a vacation mode for a preset amount of time, which he must state in this thread beforehand, and during this vacation mode he cannot gain or lose points or HP, nor can he vote or propose. The minimum time is one week.
    Passed with 5-0.

    Dice rolls:
    MageKing17: 2
    Amarth: 6
    Grim Reaper: 5
    Murska: 6

    Inactive players:
    Nuk
    Pete
    Shingo

    Updating first post. Next turn at 00:01 GMT.

    I hope I didn't forget anything. This is really not something to do on a hurry.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    I attack Idiota for 10 points, dealing 50 HP damage. Bang. Welcome to the new turn.

    Proposal: At the start of the turn, someone (me, since I do all administration anyway) rolls 2d20 twice. The results are divided by 20 and will be used as a multiplier, the first for all attacks, the second for all heals that turn. Any attack/heal amount is rounded down to the nearest integer after applying the multiplier.

    Example: Start of turn, we roll 35 and 12. The attack multiplier is 1.75, the heal multiplier is 0.6. So if A attacks B for 3 points, the resulting damage is floor(3 * 5 * 1.75) = 26 HP. If B then heals himself for 3 points, he gets healed for floor(3 * 5 * 0.6) = 9 HP.

    Motivation: bring some asymmetry to the turns. Some turns will be all about attacks, some about healing. Some about conserving points since they don't do much good. Also, break planning to a certain degree. This way, you cannot fully plan how much points you need to be able to keep your arch-enemy below 0 HP, but it still conserves the idea of "more points is better".
    #
    Idiota 8 years ago
    I vote yes.

    I propose that people who did not spend points to attack or heal anyone during a turn, generate 3 points, multiplied by the average of both multipliers rolled by the administrator at the start of the turn (assuming that Amarth's proposal passes). This adds a condition to making use of a good roll to attack or heal.

    I also propose a(n) ally/foe rule. healing of someone you declare a foe is multiplied by 0.5, while healing of someone you declare an ally is multiplied by 2. Likewise, attacking a foe gets the damage multiplied by 2, while attacking an ally gets the damage multiplied by 0.5. You may only declare 1 person to be your ally or foe per turn, to a maximum of 1 ally and 1 foe. You may undeclare a person to be your foe or ally, but you may not heal or attack that person on the same turn, and you may no longer declare someone else your ally or foe. Declaring someone to be your ally or foe does not affect their healing or damage towards you.

    If I managed to screw up again, do notify me.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    Hmmm. The ally/foe stuff seems a bit too loose to me. The effect would be that you can double your attack/heal potential against one single person with no disadvantage. How about being stuck for two turns (declared + next) with the same ally/foe?

    Apart from that (which is personal preference from a balancing viewpoint), it seems fine to me.
    #
    Murska 8 years ago
    I vote yes on Amarth's proposal. I also attack Amarth for three points, AKA 15 damage.
    #
    Idiota 8 years ago
    "Amarth" said:
    Hmmm. The ally/foe stuff seems a bit too loose to me. The effect would be that you can double your attack/heal potential against one single person with no disadvantage. How about being stuck for two turns (declared + next) with the same ally/foe?

    Apart from that (which is personal preference from a balancing viewpoint), it seems fine to me.

    You can't declare someone an ally and a foe ofcourse. It's either the one or the other, or not at all.
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    "Idiota" said:
    You can't declare someone an ally and a foe ofcourse. It's either the one or the other, or not at all.
    Okay, but that's not something you'd ever *want* to do.

    Let's be clear. No-one is going to heal another person currently. It doesn't make sense. You want to be the only one to survive and healing others won't help with that. Healing others for double points is pretty much out of question.

    So, let's focus on attacking. With your proposal, a player can deal double damage to whoever he prefers, without any disadvantage or strategical reconsideration. It seems a bit silly to me.

    BTW, Murska, did your edit your post? I almost missed your attack.
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    Dice rolls:
    MageKing17: 2
    Amarth: 6
    Grim Reaper: 5
    Murska: 6
    I freaking dice roll'd, I swear!
    #
    Amarth 8 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    I freaking dice roll'd, I swear!
    How do you manage to do it without it showing up in the logs, then? The only dice roll I have in the logs is from, like, turn 2.

    So, what did you send to where (mail,irc,xmpp)? And did you get a reply?
    #
    E_net4 8 years ago
    ...Well, I PMed the bot by IRC, but it didn't reply.
    #
    Forum » Nomic
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