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  • Notrium Mod Viewer

    Dorten 7 years ago
    It is now at a very beginning stage of development. Unpack in Notrium folder and run.

    Does it worth continuing?
    #
    Amarth 7 years ago
    Interesting. Definitely worth continuing!

    I suppose the lower part of the default view is a "problems detected" list? I really like that...
    #
    harwe 7 years ago
    Holy kickass useful!!!
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    OK... Continuing.

    Next steps:
    -Loading and viewing of:
    --Areas
    --Animations
    --Particles
    --Races
    --Dialogs
    --Songs
    --Terrains
    --PlotObjectDefinitions
    -Editing and saving...

    Not that much, I must say...
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    Hi Dorten, RE PM:

    Does anything after ';//' really means something, or it can be dumped away?
    No, as far as I'm aware, everything after the ";//" is just for annotation purposes. That said, if you're thinking of making this into an editor, it would be fantastic if it could work in such a way that would preserve what is after the ";//". There was one a program similar to yours called "Jan's File Viewer", but it was unsuitable for real use as every time you used it to edit a file, it would strip the file of all annotations, making it impossible to mod it by hand later on.
    Are spaces at the line beginnings really needed, or I can rearrange them differently?
    I'm not too sure what you mean by that... do you mean something like:
       1.5;//blah blah

    compared to
    1.5;//blah blah

    that? In that case, I can't see that the spaces would have any purpose at all. The only exception I can think of may be the journals files, but even that is unlikely.

    Last, but not least: there's the -0.3f00000 entry in float field even in default mod, but the game doesn't crash on it. Does it mean something, or is this a typo?
    I have never seen that before, and never used it, so I'm fairly certain that it's a typo. Ville may have to confirm that for you, but for now I'd guess you can probably ignore it.

    Questions of my own: I'm not sure that your program is picking up many of the values in the files correctly. For instance, if you load up the "default" mod, and look at the very first entry in plot objects, "Replicator cell", your viewer tells me that the object will be deleted after -1000 seconds and vanishes after dropping 1000000 of [Unknown (13000000)] in 0px area.
    When I compare that to the file however, the ";//time to delete object in milliseconds" is actually "-1.000000", which is the "don't delete" indicator. And the "effects" dialogue tells me that it drops 1 unit of item 13, rather than 1000000 of item 13000000. Maybe simply out by a factor of 1000000, or it's not recognizing the "."?

    That aside, this tool has great potential, I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes.
    #
    Amarth 7 years ago
    Last, but not least: there's the -0.3f00000 entry in float field even in default mod, but the game doesn't crash on it. Does it mean something, or is this a typo?
    That would be a typo. Considering the atof() documentation, atof("-0.3f00000") has the same value as atof("-0.300000f") because the part from the first non-valid character (the 'f') onwards gets stripped away (thus even "-0.3banana" should work - testing confirms this).

    EDIT: also, I assume the "//" parts designate a comment, as in C or Java. Thus the actual data as far as Notrium is concerned only goes to the ";", the "//blabla" part after that is only for humans reading the data files. As such, it is possible to insert lines with extra comment anywhere which are just seen as blank lines and discarded (testing also confirms this).
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    Questions of my own: I'm not sure that your program is picking up many of the values in the files correctly. For instance, if you load up the "default" mod, and look at the very first entry in plot objects, "Replicator cell", your viewer tells me that the object will be deleted after -1000 seconds and vanishes after dropping 1000000 of [Unknown (13000000)] in 0px area.
    When I compare that to the file however, the ";//time to delete object in milliseconds" is actually "-1.000000", which is the "don't delete" indicator. And the "effects" dialogue tells me that it drops 1 unit of item 13, rather than 1000000 of item 13000000. Maybe simply out by a factor of 1000000, or it's not recognizing the "."?

    I'm not sure, what's going on here. For me it says:

    [Replicator Cell]
    class: [normal object (0)]
    uses [Unknown (0)] definition
    8 instances are placed at random at all areas
    effects execute at map creation (conditions not checked)

    ------Effects------

    Vanishes after this:
    drop 1 of [Replicator Cell (13)] in 0px area.
    I'll see into this. For now, try changing your Windows locale settings to use different decimal separator (point instead of comma or vice versa) it might have something to do with it.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    And what to do with comments?

    Possibilities are:
    simplest one: Ignore them. (not good)
    simpler one: Load them when loading mod and save back after that. New entries are created without comments. (very simple to make)
    medium one: Always save the default comments, custom ones discarded. (will have to write down all defaults )
    harder one: load and save custom comments, allow editing them, new entries are created with default comments. ( )
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    Bit of update. Skipped Animations for a time being, I want to finish more uniform entries first.

    Triple post ops:
    #
    Aegis 7 years ago
    Very good! I fixed up tonnes of errors in my mod.
    And now I get to see how many errors I made in my first mod ever!
    119 errors, and there's more because I got lost a bit!
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    I'm happy to report the latest version works perfectly for me; no more strange disappearing decimal places.

    "Dorten" said:
    simplest one: Ignore them. (not good)
    simpler one: Load them when loading mod and save back after that. New entries are created without comments. (very simple to make)
    medium one: Always save the default comments, custom ones discarded. (will have to write down all defaults )
    harder one: load and save custom comments, allow editing them, new entries are created with default comments. ( )

    Could you please elaborate on the difference between the simpler and simplest options? To me, the medium one is looking good... while the harder one would be perfect, the balance would have to be found between what is best and what is do-able.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    My initial intention was to make editor like this: Each object is a bunch of fields, some fields being a lists of other objecsts (blocks). So, when editing an object you will be presented with a number of textboxes for single fields and for lists - buttons, which open the very same list form but for subobjects. There's the comment options: [list]simplest - ignore on loading AND writing (no comments in resulting files);
    simple - save comments on load and write back on save
    medium - ignore on load, write defaults on save
    hard - have comment textbox near each of the fields[/list:u]
    Last evening, however, I got another idea, which would be simpler to implement: to edit an object you are presented with a single big textbox, which has all the contents of the object as it is stored in the files, and the button - parse, and save if all is all right. This way the problem with comments in not even raised (you can write all you want), and editing will be much faster and less clumsy, but:
    [list]I'll have to rewrite the description code to show all the fields, not only the most unclear
    It may be not as simple to mod for beginners
    I won't be able to add some fansy stuff like picking image and sound files with open file dialogs or whatever later[/list:u]

    Of course, there's always an option to use BOTH editor interfaces ! But the question is: which one will be the first to make?
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    My initial intention was to make editor like this: Each object is a bunch of fields, some fields being a lists of other objecsts (blocks). So, when editing an object you will be presented with a number of textboxes for single fields and for lists - buttons, which open the very same list form but for subobjects. There's the comment options:

    simplest - ignore on loading AND writing (no comments in resulting files);
    simple - save comments on load and write back on save
    medium - ignore on load, write defaults on save
    hard - have comment textbox near each of the fields

    So, if I have this right: the "simple" option will take the comments (everything after the ';//'s) from every line of the file, save them and then add them back to the file it creates when editing? If that's right, that sounds fairly perfect.

    And I prefer the ideas above to the second one; even though it would be fine for people who can already proficient at modding, the main reason your editor would be used is for people who either can't mod, or who want the process streamlined and made easier. I'd love to be able to edit my mod using drop-down boxes and number/text fields.

    I won't be able to add some fansy stuff like picking image and sound files with open file dialogs or whatever later

    Another reason I'm leaning towards the first options. That would be fantastic.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    OK, only Object definitions and polygons, before I leave viewing alone for a time and focus on editing.

    I've reworked description building to be more or less automatic, with a possibility to use custom representations (default is 'Field: Value'). So, I'm gathering suggestions on what should be made more clear in descriptions.
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    One feature I was thinking about recently that would be of huge assistance is this: is it at all possible to add in some of the files a list of all the places/things that access the item ('item' as in the non-Notrium definition )?
    For example: I have a weapon X. Because I have over 100 items, 100 creatures and 100 scripts, it becomes quite difficult to keep track of exactly what is using what, and I would like to know exactly what is accessing weapon X. So, I open up Notrium Mod Viewer, open Weapons and check weapon X, which beneath the main data box will display a second box, a la:

    Accessed by:
    - Creature 4 (weapon)
    - Creature 45 (death effects)
    - Item 76
    - Script 32


    I'm not sure if this is at all possible, so give me your thoughts. As above, it would not need to be for every file, the most important ones I can think of would be the Scripts, Weapons, Items, Plot Objects, Object Definitions and maybe Lights and Particles.

    Brilliant work on the latest build by the way.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    It's absolutely possible, However, I'll have to make a huge amount of coding for effects and parameters - they can access almost everything, and to check what exactly, I'll have to do separate check for every of 70 effect types and every of 47 condition types (and it was a major PITA to write down all the descriptions for them, took about six hours), so, I guess, it'll have to wait until basic editing works.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    Here it is.

    When saving all initial files are stored in backup[date] folder.

    Please, post any bugs/suggestions/desires here.

    ToDo list:
    [list]Actual objects for JustAnID lists
    Show comment when editing field (plus add default comments to new objects)
    "What Links Here" option
    custom enums for some firelds
    [/list:u]
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    I'll check it out right away and give you any suggestions and bugs I find when I'm done.
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    (double post)

    OK, first of all, this is absolutely brilliant; it's what Notrium has been needing for a long, long time, and it's all perfectly executed and very well set out. My hat goes off to you, you don't know how long this is coming lol, someone's finally did it!

    Bugs/suggestions/desires in that order:

    Bugs

    Walking around on various terrains, for some reason your character suddenly either 1) "leaps" about in a super fast and uncontrollable manner, or 2) stops stone cold and won't move again without restarting. After about 1/2 an hour of going through every possible file that could be causing it and finding nothing, I finally found that the problem is that in the "terrain types" file, whenever there is an effects block as such:

    begin_effects_block;
    The swamp is slowing you down.;//event text
    100.000000;//interval
    1;//run only once 0=no, 1=yes
    begin_conditions;
    end_conditions;
    begin_effects;
    1;//effect number
    100.000000;//parameter1
    -1.000000;//parameter2
    0.500000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4
    end_effects;
    end_effects_block;

    the mod viewer changes the interval to:

    begin_effects_block;
    The swamp is slowing you down.;//event text
    0.000000;//interval
    1;//run only once 0=no, 1=yes
    begin_conditions;
    end_conditions;
    begin_effects;
    1;//effect number
    100.000000;//parameter1
    -1.000000;//parameter2
    0.500000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4
    end_effects;
    end_effects_block;

    Hence making any effects occur at many times their speed. I'd imagine that this should be fairly easy to fix?

    In the animations file, whenever there is an empty line such as:

    ;text
    500;//text_y
    159;//start_x
    282;//start_y
    324;//end_x
    520;//end_y

    the mod editor changes it to:

    none;text
    500;//text_y
    159;//start_x
    282;//start_y
    324;//end_x
    520;//end_y

    It should simply be left as only the ";" (I don't know why this is different to the other files), as "none" now shows up in the intros/ending.


    Suggestions/desires:

    I'd far prefer it if there was a "save" button on every file window you open, rather than simply on the main window. This isn't to add any additional functionality, simply it is far more intuitive to "save" as you finish working on an individual file, rather than the mod overall. It just feels strange to have to close the window first and then return to the main window before saving.

    Are 'object definitions' planned to be part of the Mod Viewer/Editor?

    And yeah, whenever the ""What Links Here" option" can be incorporated, that will be fantastic. I've got one or two weird things going on with my mod at the moment that I know must be script-related, however I have no idea what is calling it.


    I hope Ville or Quanrian notices this (I may PM them later), and gives it some more exposure. It's really fantastic work. Anyone who's about to get into modding, download this right away! Your job just got a whole lot easier.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    I'd imagine that this should be fairly easy to fix?
    Fixed

    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    It should simply be left as only the ";" (I don't know why this is different to the other files), as "none" now shows up in the intros/ending.
    Fixed, but need the list of all places, where empty string is acceptable...

    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    I'd far prefer it if there was a "save" button on every file window you open, rather than simply on the main window. This isn't to add any additional functionality, simply it is far more intuitive to "save" as you finish working on an individual file, rather than the mod overall. It just feels strange to have to close the window first and then return to the main window before saving.
    Bit later

    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    Are 'object definitions' planned to be part of the Mod Viewer/Editor?
    Whoops, forgot. Will be there next time

    "ZeXLR8er" said:

    And yeah, whenever the ""What Links Here" option" can be incorporated, that will be fantastic. I've got one or two weird things going on with my mod at the moment that I know must be script-related, however I have no idea what is calling it.
    Try the "?" button on list forms in this version. It's not very clear for now, but can help.
    #
    anruca 7 years ago
    Hi people!...
    I know this is going to sound like a stupid question but how do i use this program?
    It is in my Notrium folder but when i try to start it up it shows me an error...
    NMV 0.65.EXE -Application Error
    The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click on OK to terminate the app...
    That's the error if i am doing something wrong write cos i am still new to this program.
    Anyway Thanks...
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    Just reporting that the "what links here" option works perfectly, a great help.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    "anruca" said:
    Hi people!...
    I know this is going to sound like a stupid question but how do i use this program?
    It is in my Notrium folder but when i try to start it up it shows me an error...
    NMV 0.65.EXE -Application Error
    The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click on OK to terminate the app...
    That's the error if i am doing something wrong write cos i am still new to this program.
    Anyway Thanks...

    Do you have .NET framework 1.1?
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    A bit of tuning here and there, bugfixing, plus object definitions and polygons.
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    The viewer is mixing up the "collision detection parameter0" and "collision detection parameter1" fields of the Object Definitions file.

    Building;//name---------------------------------------
    1;//identifier
    begin_animation_frames;
    building.png;//texture name
    0;//time to display frame
    end_animation_frames;
    0.20000;//size*128
    0.000000;//vary size
    1;//transparent
    2;//layer
    0;//does it sway with the wind
    0;//gets transparent when player near
    0;//provides shade for player
    1;//collision detection type, -1=none, 0=circle radius parameter0, 1=polygon parameter0 from polygons.dat size parameter1
    6.000000;//collision detection parameter0
    0.600000;//collision detection parameter1

    0;//Block vision. If 1, enemies and player cannot see other creatures through it. Use sparingly, this slows the AI down.
    0;//Stops bullets. Use sparingly as this can slow the game down a lot.

    Instead of this resulting in the object using polygon collision detection, using polygon number 6 from polygons.dat with a size of 0.60, the viewer is reporting that the object is using polygon collision detection, using polygon number 1 (presumably rounded up from 0.60000) and with a size of 6.00000.


    EDIT: Woa, this version saves over the Object Definitions file with the Terrain Types file. Yikes.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    Whoops!
    "ZeXLR8er" said:
    Woa, this version saves over the Object Definitions file with the Terrain Types file. Yikes.
    It also does this for polygons.

    Fixed.
    #
    anruca 7 years ago
    "Dorten" said:
    "anruca" said:
    Hi people!...
    I know this is going to sound like a stupid question but how do i use this program?
    It is in my Notrium folder but when i try to start it up it shows me an error...
    NMV 0.65.EXE -Application Error
    The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click on OK to terminate the app...
    That's the error if i am doing something wrong write cos i am still new to this program.
    Anyway Thanks...

    Do you have .NET framework 1.1?

    I think that's a no. Don't have that on my pc.
    #
    MageKing17 7 years ago
    I just checked this out. I must say, very impressive. Still needs work, obviously, but already looks like a great tool. Definitely worth working on.

    A suggestion: Certain fields only have a point if certain other fields have certain values in them (for example, an items "particle" field has no meaning if "show on radar" is 0), but are displayed anyway (so a lot of items wind up displaying, say, "Blood(0)" as their particle, despite not using their particle at all). It would help (for the sake of readability) if these "pointless fields" weren't displayed in the little summary screen on the bottom left.

    Another thing: The "short description" in the summary screen doesn't have a clear divider to end it (for example, "----------Slots----------" has clearly ended when you run into "----------Effects----------", while "----------Short description----------" runs straight into "size:" and "show on radar:" and the rest of the info). It'd help (again, for the sake of readability) if a divisor (as in "----------Statistics----------" or something similar) were inserted.

    Also:
    "anruca" said:
    "Dorten" said:
    Do you have .NET framework 1.1?
    I think that's a no. Don't have that on my pc.
    I believe you should find this helpful.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    "MageKing17" said:
    I just checked this out. I must say, very impressive. Still needs work, obviously, but already looks like a great tool. Definitely worth working on.

    A suggestion: Certain fields only have a point if certain other fields have certain values in them (for example, an items "particle" field has no meaning if "show on radar" is 0), but are displayed anyway (so a lot of items wind up displaying, say, "Blood(0)" as their particle, despite not using their particle at all). It would help (for the sake of readability) if these "pointless fields" weren't displayed in the little summary screen on the bottom left.

    Another thing: The "short description" in the summary screen doesn't have a clear divider to end it (for example, "----------Slots----------" has clearly ended when you run into "----------Effects----------", while "----------Short description----------" runs straight into "size:" and "show on radar:" and the rest of the info). It'd help (again, for the sake of readability) if a divisor (as in "----------Statistics----------" or something similar) were inserted.

    Both of these are actually the one: The basic 'Description' of an object is built simply as the list of it's fields. If the field is list, then it writes "----------Field name----------" an then lists the 'Description' of every list item. Same goes for long multiline string fields like 'Short description'.
    To take care of "pointless fields" displaying in the Description textbox I only need to override the GetFieldDescription for them to not show anything, if it's pointless (can you provide me with the list of all relevant cases?).
    Second problem, however, requires to override almost all Description properties of many objects... Maybe just a row of '-----...' at the end of multiline fields would help?
    #
    MageKing17 7 years ago
    "Dorten" said:
    To take care of "pointless fields" displaying in the Description textbox I only need to override the GetFieldDescription for them to not show anything, if it's pointless (can you provide me with the list of all relevant cases?).
    I suppose I could try. It's fairly easy... I just have to go through every field and find ones that only matter if another value is a certain thing.

    "dorten" said:
    Maybe just a row of '-----...' at the end of multiline fields would help?
    A simple empty line at the end of multiline fields would help. I just want to easily be able to tell when the description ends and the various item stats begin.
    #
    Aegis 7 years ago
    Great work with your releases. But there could be a problem with how it treats ";//draw layer" lines. The viewer states that anything over 2 is a bug, while it actually makes the object invisible, which can be useful. But I don't know if the invisibility was intended or not.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    "Aegis" said:
    Great work with your releases. But there could be a problem with how it treats ";//draw layer" lines. The viewer states that anything over 2 is a bug, while it actually makes the object invisible, which can be useful. But I don't know if the invisibility was intended or not.
    Well, it only warns you, but does not prevent you from usnig this values...

    Another version is up. Not much changed. I am not a modder and don't have much time for testing, so please post found bugs.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    Another update. Loads and saves Terrain_maps.dat you can place and fiddle with the objects placed on map, but it's still easier to do from ingame editor. Main use for this is finding what is where with '?' button, for example you can find that there is one preplaced marine hermit on start area map.

    To Do:
    [list]Save buttons on every form!!!
    make them save only corresponding file
    showing images
    selecting images and sounds more easily
    whatever I can think of
    whatever YOU can think of
    [/list:u]
    #
    ZeXLR8er 7 years ago
    Very, very nice. I was going to suggest that you include terrain_maps.dat, it's perfect for exactly the purpose you intended, checking where plot objects or creatures are located in the game.

    Picture and sound integration will be fantastic. Is it too much to hope for the actual graphics appearing in the viewer?

    I'll put my mind to other features too. Great work.
    #
    Dorten 7 years ago
    Sorry for a bit of lag, it was my birthday at saturday... Continuing to work now $)
    #
    Forum » Notrium Mod Viewer
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