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  • - Forsaken II -

    Casanova 11 years ago
    The mod will now be availible for download here:

    <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sergioe.uni.cc/">http://www.sergioe.uni.cc/</a><!-- m -->

    Please let me know if you encounter any problems downloading it.
    #
    eug1404 11 years ago
    Moving all your mods of your host for any particular reason?.
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    Casanova 11 years ago
    The other host required daily posting at the forum in order to keep the account active, and i kept forgeting to. And since my new ISP provides a free personal website, I might as well move.
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    clogmonkey 11 years ago
    "Casanova" said:
    uhhh, ok. Good to see you got it now.

    *speakin like yoda* ggood... you are progresing my padawon he,he,he,he,heeeee.

    P.S. make no replies to this spam, plane and simple.
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    Industriebrot 11 years ago
    Its nice, I like it. The seeding is fun, but i'm still testing the constuction system. The itemgraphics are perfect! The environment should be a little bit darker for some additional atmosphere.

    [OT]
    Hey, thats the blade of the immortal, isn't it?
    [/OT]
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    There will be a night/day shifts on later builds. I have it always lit for ease during editing.

    <--- Its isnt the blade of the inmortal, its the symbol of torment.
    #
    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    Check my Advanced Spawner code

    <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.monkkonen.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=944">http://www.monkkonen.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=944</a><!-- m -->

    Designed to simulate random wild (re)growth.

    The secret is it uses invisible roaming creatures which spawn plants or something else at timed death. It's nice and polished.
    You can use it to spawn even trees if you make them plot_objects. You can use fancy conditions like spawn only on certain terrain, or lower chance of spawn on certain terrain, or make wild plants grow close to each other, etc.

    You could even make trees plot_objects and paste Advanced Spawner code into each single tree ! That would make them work almost naturally. Single tree wouldn't spawn others too fast (limited seeds), but several trees would do it much faster. On the other hand, when there are more trees, there's less space for them. So after certain point they would grow slower and slower.
    Ecological laws in Notrium ! I must congratulate myself for this idea, because if I don't, no one will. When I started coding the spawner yesterday, I meant it to simply respawn plants...
    Just make sure intervals are high enough so Notrium doesn't lag too much.

    Sometimes I think even Ville and Quanrian don't realise what powerful tool they've created.
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    That's quite brilliant and I expect Casanova will find some use for it

    Trust me, we realise how powerful modding Notrium has become, but both me and Ville tend to not have the time to fiddle with all the neat stuff possible. I'm usually flooded with alot of sidework, while Ville is slowly amassing a great army of scope... I've said too much, ehem. Yes, well Ville is just very busy
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    That is an excellent idea. Using creatures as spawners. Brilliant. They wont spawn on lava etc and it is much more random. I wish I had of thought of that.
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    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:

    Trust me, we realise how powerful modding Notrium has become, but both me and Ville tend to not have the time to fiddle with all the neat stuff possible.

    Well, I'll try my best to prove you're wrong. I'll soon test my backstabbing code, I just have to figure out how directions work in shooting effects. You said somewhere there's no way of checking which way a creature is facing.
    It can be done.

    I used similar technique in my Funderful mod (Pain Mirror retaliates only against short-ranged attacks)
    The backstabbing stuff will go like this: first, player shoots invisible short-range bullet. If it hits a creature, hit effect causes it to shoot back (direction opposite to normal shooting) another invisible bullet.
    Now if this bullet hits a player, normal backstabbing attack is executed. Again a hit effect.

    So first weapon is a creature proximity probe.
    Second weapon checks if creature has been actually hit from behind.
    Third weapon, the final one, is backstab.

    If I want to make it fancier, I can make second weapon fired by creature's hit block - only if anger is low. So even if creature is very sluggish, it can be backstabbed only if it doesn't suspect anything.
    ----------------
    I understand. I had to pause my studies because of health reasons, that's why I have so much free time recently. (going back 15.II)
    -------------
    I also currently test my shield. (big piece of metal, you know). It blocks melee attacks, just needs some optimisation. I made it work by preventing creatures from fire, this is a little strange, but does the trick. I wanted to make it work when you face an enemy, and that's how it works.
    I still need it to block missiles, but I have multiple approaches to choose from here. One thing is certain - almost all missiles will be creatures in my new mod.
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    Wouldn't it just be alot simpler and efficient to simply check if the creature's anger level is below a certain amount and reduce the view range so it doesn't cover behind it ? I mean if you're behind it than it wont be able to see you, thus it's anger level will not rise, thus the condition will still provide true but without all the exchanges in bullets I suggest at least trying this as it's alot slimmer and far more portable. The only flaw being inaccuracy in the AI, but that would just as easily effect your model as well as it also depends heavily on anger level.

    P.S. Check your private messages B0rsuk
    #
    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:
    Wouldn't it just be alot simpler and efficient to simply check if the creature's anger level is below a certain amount and reduce the view range so it doesn't cover behind it ? I mean if you're behind it than it wont be able to see you, thus it's anger level will not rise, thus the condition will still provide true but without all the exchanges in bullets I suggest at least trying this as it's alot slimmer and far more portable. The only flaw being inaccuracy in the AI, but that would just as easily effect your model as well as it also depends heavily on anger level.

    P.S. Check your private messages B0rsuk

    I still prefer my approach. In yours, I could run up to the creature and hit it right in the face with backstab. The anger level wouldn't have time to rise, I think. (psionic dash etc).

    But the idea of making field of view dependant on anger is cool. I'll put it somewhere. I have to change creature, right ?
    Might be tricky, because I already plan using side changers to make missiles that chase specified target....

    If you're so concerned about bullets fired, you'd be horrified to see how many my shield shoots. Imagine an offspring of shotgun and flamethrower. I will remove weapon spread altogether and make it shoot several weapons in fixed directions. I'll be able to use less bullets this way, and, as a bonus, the risk of having more than 10 effects on a creature will be reduced.
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "B0rsuk" said:
    I still prefer my approach. In yours, I could run up to the creature and hit it right in the face with backstab. The anger level wouldn't have time to rise, I think. (psionic dash etc).

    Not unless something has gone horribly wrong with the AI levels The instant a creature is hit by a weapon, any weapon its anger level automatically maxs out. So therefor if you hit the creature before you wont be able to backstab it since its anger level will max out. You'll than have to get far enough away before it lowers again. Now since you're checking for a very low anger level you'd screw up your backstab quite thoroughly by using any other attack besides the backstab while the creature is unaware
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    I may not use the spawning code since it requires the player to be in the same area for it to be calculated. Instead I would use plot objects so resourses replenish while the player explores other areas.
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    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    "Casanova" said:
    I may not use the spawning code since it requires the player to be in the same area for it to be calculated. Instead I would use plot objects so resourses replenish while the player explores other areas.

    Not quite.
    Creatures travel and die only when player is in area, true. But they are generated (!) and accumulated at plot_objects even when player is away.
    When player re-enters the area, all seeds start moving and autodestruction sequence is started. To make sure player will see replenished area, you have to make sure all seeds are in place (and die) after few seconds after entering the area.
    In other words, you should reduce seed creature lifetime (a lot), and increase it's speed (a lot). You still control regrowth speed rate by plot_object interval.

    Just be aware that timed block effect (side change - bans from being planted for 1000 ms) is executed every 1000 ms by default. So it may be less accurate at spreading the plants away from each other. You could lower the interval, of course, as long as it doesn't slow the game too much. You'd have to test it...

    I just tested seed creature accumulation and it actually works. I set the limit at 40 seeds, waited a day and when I entered I saw a swarm of seeds (I made them visible for this occasion). Then all the seeds died, and - apparently - not exactly at the same time, this saved me extra trouble of designing random death sentences. If they actually spawned at the same time, they wouldn't care for spreading. But they were spread nicely from each other. This proves (I think) that Notrium knows no simultaneous events in strictly technical sense, even if events are less than 1 ms away.
    -----------------------
    I hope I explained the spawner can be adjusted to match your needs. It's up to you to use it or not, of course

    Oh, and thanks for useful hint (that plot_objects work when away). I wondered how to make Spawner work when I'm away, should I use bars for calculating away time etc.... and it appears I don't have to ! Brilliant !
    #
    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    Quanrian :

    You're right, but I can design a dirty workaround. For example I can insert into a timed block of each creature "if player is near and this creature is angry, run script blah blah"
    Then there will be wield condition for weapon preventing it from fire if monster kindly says he's angry (before being hit by direction checkers), and he wishes no backstabbing. Or a wielder disabling script. Anyway, it will work. Can be done.

    I don't like changing creatures just to make field of view different, because - shhhh ! don't tell anyone. One of races in new mod will be Astaroth, a demon which has pretty much no body, but can posses most creatures. With extensive use of creature classes.
    Now there's the thing you can't change creature controlled by player. It might get messy if creature controlled by player is changed. However, I can make a condition "creature is not controled by player/not carrying..."
    It just keeps getting more and more complicated. But I can make it work.
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    Drakon_Blade 11 years ago
    well first off this is my first post so hello everyone, you dont know me but i frequent the forums as a guest so i know you i know all of you and all your dirty little secrets and this equals BLACKMAIL! MUAHAHAHAAHAHA!! well not really. now for on topic i have to say this mods concept is simply amazing i have played with the 9th build and its pretty good but there are a few bugs ive found so far.

    - first one i found was that the boars just stand around and turn like turrets on sprinkler and thats what they were as when i would walk up to them and get in their face i got hit (which btw is nice the damage could be tuned down a little but otherwise rather realistic in a surreal way) but they didnt move at all.

    - as has already been mentioned you cant cook food with a fire for the reason afore mentioned that the cook option looks for a plot_object but the fire is detected as a creature (thus your ability to make it have a lifeline health thus the need and ability to fuel it).

    - also for whatever reason it would crash the game if you tried to start a new game in forsaken havent tried any others yet but ill do that and let you know.

    - also since im stuck using a laptop to play (my harddrive in my main computer went out) the river causes some nasty lag though nothing too bad, the laptop has an intel pentium III processor that puts out 796hz and has 192 megs of ram incase that info is of any help.

    also the victorian era idea sounds good and definatly some robinson crusoe material would be excelent (i read it too) particularly the flintlock weapons would fire with a slight spread nothing too wide dont know any particulars yet but i could do some experimenting, and would have good damage as they fired balls that were quite large as big as the barrel which was a good size, also youd need a delay between firings of 6-7 seconds for the time it takes to pour the powder drop in a ball pack it in with the wadding and cock the flint arm so as i said ill do some experimenting with weapons that feels about right.

    also one final note PLEASE make the snakes a little larger because as it is they are like invisible demons for all i can see in the snake marsh but i know thats what they are supposed to be like but they are too small too small of a target to hit with anything and for whatever reason to my eyes they look like walking midget gnomes.

    thats all i can think of for now on the bugs and changes. once again id like to say this is a sweet mod and i hope it goes well. as of yet i dont have much experience with modding asides from weapons and adjusting basic stats but i can only get better by playing around with it.

    Yrs. Drakon_Blade

    P.S. 1 yes i talk too much 2 i use too many also's
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    Casanova 11 years ago
    Thanks for the commnents, Ill make a note of them. Right now the boars are just there for me to have something to test the weapons with. Later on I want to have them to be cowardly when alone, but aggresive when in numbers.
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    An idea on the aggression would be to change the AI when another boar is near it. Than another to change it back if another boar isn't close enough. That would probably do it but you'd have to test it to make sure. This should work for each individual boar as well as for many. You'd probably want them to have to be fairly close before they get aggressive and tweak their attack AI so that they don't chase you forever or perhaps attack and than run away.

    A boar typically would run at you several times before full on attacking you, would be very kewl if you could set that up. You could even check the player's health and if it's low the boar will try to finish the player off Something to try at least if you're considering adding some fancy AI.
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    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    Congratz Casanova!!!
    I've been willing to try Forsaken for some six months now, but got to do it 2 days ago. Really cool mod u got. Nice work on items already coded. Construction system going the rite way.
    That shipwreck german game is nice but this Wilderness is THE survival simulation game: http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=1340. Try it and make sure to check the depth of the 100+ pages (at least fells like it is huge) manual!

    Some things I noticed on alpha 9:
    1- You can drop construction items from menu (c key menu)
    2- The game doenst seem to allow planks and nails yet (required to build items)
    3- There's no way to make clothes from boars hide yet


    I know the game is unfinished, specially the construction function, just said that so if u planned for that to be already working you see its not...
    I got carried away and wrote all this list of things to improve the game, add realism and motivate players, most of them I know are codeable, although some with difficulty, they are meant as suggestions, perhaps if some of them get to the game it would be nice, if all, It would be a dream game of mine.
    I think I could help with some of these or even other features u find more important.

    Now some ideas on your mod that would add/improve alot to the fun, I hope u find some of them interesting and possibly I would be happy helping u with them:
    1- Figure out some way to generate random maps, as huge as possible.
    2- Find out a system by which u can recover your health, althought with extreme difficulty, like in real life.
    3- Make sun rise/set realistic and using stones to write on them (like how many days its been or things like that instead of journal)
    3- Sun clock device that tells position of the sun/stars/moon
    4- There must be sound alerts to hunger/thirst, as in real life you wouldnt ever die of hunger because u didnt fell it
    5- Making a torch or candle would be nice

    Some ideas about realism:
    1- ( already answered on posts) boars are static and too many
    2- maps are too small
    3- river are too narrow and impossible to swim, maybe u could swim by them with difficulty or with a rope arround u, fixed in the ground...
    4- After dropping tinder theres no way to get it back, I know thats probally Notrium engine limits but there should be workarrounds.
    5- There could be natural disasters, like eathquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes...
    6- Digging shelters and traps would be reallistic
    7- Snakes could be made more camouflagded
    8- When planting, u should be able to make one ground hole for seeds at a time, having to make many to get a field, it also should take some time to do it.
    9- Flints could get weared down after many times used, some other items too.
    10- Maybe there could be experience bars, like if u practice spear tossing you get better at it.
    11- Again about experience, as Crusoe is not a survival expert, most items produced should be of inferior quality when first produced, and then get better with practice on using them (analyzing problems with design, resistence of materials). Then the second bow you prduce should be better then the first. Most important with structures as raft or tree house.
    12- It would be more realistic for health to be showed to user scaled qualitativily something as good shape/regular/bad shape, as in real life there's no health/temperature/stamina bar u can go to. Health condition should also affect stamina, speed, and temperature resistence.
    13- Some health scenarious would be nice, as broken arm, leg, amnesia, delusions, fever, poor sight, bleeding...

    About objectives and game items:
    1- It would be cool to get items complexity going higher till metal works or even electricity!
    2- Perhaps playing as a girls or kid for extra difficulty
    3- Building a Crusoe spa complex, with coconut automatic opening device and stuff
    4- A survival book would make for easy playing without altering mechanics. Maybe by using/reading it the character becomes expert in different areas of the game.
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    Those are some good ideas, and I actually had planned some similar things as you suggested. But there is the problem that while some are possible to add, it would be very awkward to implement them (random maps and improving tool skills).

    If you really want to help me, I would use some more detailed creature behaviour for boars,snakes, wolfs, etc. You could modify them and send me the creature.dat and AI.dat for them once you are done.
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    Should I try implementing what Quanrian was suggesting or just add some wandering/underground walk for snakes?
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    Casanova 11 years ago
    Yeah, try what quanrian sugested if you want. Send it to me and ill implement in the next version.
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    A--> I was starting coding the boar's AI today and realised I'm not sure what Quanrian meant by what he said.
    An idea on the aggression would be to change the AI when another boar is near it. Than another to change it back if another boar isn't close enough. That would probably do it but you'd have to test it to make sure. This should work for each individual boar as well as for many. You'd probably want them to have to be fairly close before they get aggressive and tweak their attack AI so that they don't chase you forever or perhaps attack and than run away.

    A boar typically would run at you several times before full on attacking you, would be very kewl if you could set that up. You could even check the player's health and if it's low the boar will try to finish the player off Something to try at least if you're considering adding some fancy AI.

    1- When boar is near another boar would it attack fellow boar.
    or
    2- When boar is near player it attacks player.
    or
    3- Both the above
    or
    4- Something else

    B--> And by
    A boar typically would run at you several times before full on attacking you
    does it means:
    1)boar attack lightly before heavy attack?
    or
    2)he tries scaring enemy off by showing agressiveness (running at enemy and stoping fairly close)?

    Im going to do boar attack boar when too close to each other. Boar will move towards player and stop in front of him (fairly complex thing to do), maybe scream or move agressively like bull preparing assault. If player's health is low boar will finish him of. Problem would be boars packing and attacking each other...
    If you suggest otherwise tell me ASAP please, so I dont spend too much time coding what im doing. Thanks.
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    Could you set the boars AI to behave this way?

    Boar becomes aggresive if:
    -player is nearby
    -there are other boars close by

    or attack if:

    -boar is hurt
    -player has low health

    if the boar is hurt and the player has high health, then flee

    otherwise boars would roam normally
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    For boars to attack each other when too close but dont pack, Im doing a second boar creature when two get close. If a third comes and see them, it flees.
    Is there a easier way of solving the packing problem? Maybe involving toggles woth bars? I thought of it but didnt see it working...
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    Im not sure what you are trying to do by having 3 different boar creatures. There is no need to have the boars attack each other, just have them attack the player at the same time.
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    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    I really got way too excited with this boar AI stuff. Was thinking about territory marking and tracking creatures that would pass its territory...
    Maybe its better just to do something simple I know, I will open a thread about the territory marking stuff and code the boar simpler.
    I was thinking Quanrian was suggesting boars to be agressive on each other, like a territorial dispute or something. Now I see he was probaly suggesting what u said, boars would get aggressive when packed, intenting to assault on player. I will concentrate its AI on that for now. Thanks
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    Alright then, let me know when you are done so i can add it the version im working on. Also if you have ideas for new tools or resources, I would like to hear them.
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    I got tools ideas:
    1- the clothes u arrive at island
    2- clothes made from leaves (pants, shirt, shoes, hat)
    3- clothes made from boars hide (maybe a protective leather vest)
    4- lar from boar (besides meat, could be used with ashes to cook soap, maybe when u are hurt u can clean your wounds )
    5- survival kit (which would be on emergency raft u got to island with, dont remember if its a plain crash instead) with tools, gun, ammo, book on survival, some food, radio...
    6- bag made from boar hide. Dont know what use though. Maybe it could be needed to carry many items.

    Will you have fixed to cooking meat problem? If I could help...
    Also u could make tinder go back to inventory somehow if u use it accidentily maybe (I think im been to demanding here, not real problem really )
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    So far i have fixed the meat cooking problem, have added the ability to buil wooden walls and doors, and made the player start with a shirt one (can be removed and used as a piece of cloth). About the lard, maybe I can add that so it can be used to make soap and oil.
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    I haven't been able to read all the posts, so perhaps this was already asked.

    1 - Can you get a pet? Like perhaps steal a wolf pup and raise it? It would be nice if your pup could then later become the Alpha leader and starts its own pack, or get control of the other. Perhaps even different pets? But you can only have one, ever?

    2 - What is the newest version for Forsaken II? Where can I get it?
    #
    Casanova 11 years ago
    A pet wolf, yeah I'll add that. I havet made a new version availible for download yet, there are a few more things i need to finish uo first.
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    Get the game here http://casanova.trap17.com/index.shtml. Post it at downloadable mods if u can please. It took me some time to get this adress too.

    The wolf pet idea is awesome, maybe it could be made extra wild, not like a dog, but with its own will and loyalty system. Unlike dogs, wolfs are not so submissive.

    Other useful items would be shoes. Some climbing/tree climbing gear, gloves, rope for tieing ankles together...
    #
    hojedaniel 11 years ago
    Casa, I copied little insectoid AI to boars as they pack attacking player, as I thought that was what Quanrian meant. It works neatly . But Quan mentioned something about raising boar's anger lvl when another is close by:
    An idea on the aggression would be to change the AI when another boar is near it. Than another to change it back if another boar isn't close enough.
    Whats that about
    Also...
    Very important: fire lifetime bar must be proportional to ammount of fuel left, not percentage of left fuel. The difference is long lasting fires should have larger bars. 2 pounds of fuel last longer than 1, bar should show that. Currently if u feed a stick to fire, bar shows fire fueled, the same as if u fuel it with a log ! Not realistic nor useful, as u need to watch the speed bar is dropping to estimate fire lifetime, in real life u just look for unburn fuel left. Hope u can implement this, it would be very nice. Thanks
    #
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