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Forum » WAZZAL II: The Final Dawn - final Version 6 released!
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  • WAZZAL II: The Final Dawn - final Version 6 released!

    Quanrian 11 years ago
    That's actually a great way to do non-moving custom animations. However for moving custom animations it wont work well at all since plot objects don't move and can't be moved.
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    ZeXLR8er 11 years ago
    I'll try it. So it's probable not the best for doing animations todo with ships?
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er!!" said:
    I'll try it. So it's probable not the best for doing animations todo with ships?

    Yes you can do custom animations for creatures, but it's alot more work. The method Casanova supplied is infinitely more simplistic, which is really what makes it so great. For a creature you've got to have a new creature for each frame you're going to have usually, but there may be away to tweak that but it'd involve so much extra scripting it wouldn't be worth it. For a player you'd need a new creature AND new player race for EACH frame in the custom animation. So it's really a matter of just how much you want to it, because I can personally tell you it's alot of work because all of the animations I did for Impalpable Eidolon were custom animations.
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    michael 11 years ago
    any idea when 0.2 will come out?
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er!!" said:
    Well, think about it; the longer build 2 takes, the more stuff's going to be in it. But I'm still aiming for with 2-3 days.
    #
    gold kiros 11 years ago
    Will we able able to attack and infiltrate enemy bases?

    If so here's an idea to make it worth it.

    Ya you got your marines that attk but what about Pilots?
    Say you defeat the bases defenses you can use 4 marines to capture a fighter in a dock, 6 for a corvette, 18 for a frigate and 30 for a capital.

    But for pilots it's a lot less. 1 for a fighter, 4 foor a corvette, 8 for a frigate and 16 for a capital. Makes the player think more about just beefing your forces with only marines.

    To raid an armory you need 5 marines to force a small arms open or a new class , "The Tehnician" which you need one. Medium armory 10 marines or 3 technicians, large amrory 20 marines or 5 technicians and special armory 40 marines or 10 technicians.

    The pilot and technician can have twice the armor but say -10 hp?

    How possible will it be to construct bases? In like make turrets on walls or searchlights, walls with hp count. Doors that open and close for you. Think age of empires:risse of kings but more complex and important. Have your own armory to store things and own dock.



    Last thing will there be freelancing? Trade, bounty hunter, pirate, good doer, etc..
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    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "gold kiros" said:
    How possible will it be to construct bases? In like make turrets on walls or searchlights, walls with hp count. Doors that open and close for you. Think age of empires:risse of kings but more complex and important. Have your own armory to store things and own dock.

    Build a base? That would be wicked cool but I think the amount of work required to pull it off is not worth it. The mod is going to take place mostly in space so bases won't have such a big part in it. It can be done. It would be cool. It just too much work.

    A compromise perhaps? What about being able to deploy space stations? That would require far less work on his part, would still provide a decent feel of base building, be more active since it is also in space and they could serve various purposes. Some with powerful weapons (a space turret if you will) or others could be factories, providing a small steady stream of income for you.

    That way you can have your fort and use it too!

    Pilots - Nice idea. If I understand correctly you are saying that after a battle to take a ship you must have at least, say 8, men remaining otherwise the ship just self-destructs. A pilot would count as two men, so if you have six men and a pilot remaining you're still good to go.

    Technicians - Perhaps they could also be able to repair your mechanical units? But I think the player should have a choice with the armories.
    1 - Blow it open and lose some of the content.
    2 - Use your technicians, if you have enough, to open it and retain all the stored items.
    Both can be done, if there are to be armories in the game.
    #
    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "UberWaffe" said:
    What about being able to deploy space stations? That would require far less work on his part, would still provide a decent feel of base building, be more active since it is also in space and they could serve various purposes. Some with powerful weapons (a space turret if you will) or others could be factories, providing a small steady stream of income for you.
    We could make the space stations just be a bunch of turrets, but when you put them in a certain formation they are called a different type of station (this adds variety and even allows the player to design their own).

    TURRETS:

    Laser Turret
    Gatling Laser Turret
    Rocket Turret
    Photon Cannon Turret
    Torpedo Turret

    When combined in a certain way, we label them as such:

    /--------KEY--------\
    L - Laser Turret
    G - Gatling Laser
    R - Rocket
    P - Photon Cannon
    T - Torpedo
    \--------END--------/

    SPRAY-CLASS FIRST DEFENSE STATION
    L - G - L


    LUGER-CLASS LONG RANGE DEFENSE
        P
    |
    P - T - P
    |
    P


    BLASTER-CLASS HEAVY DEFENSIVE NETWORK
      G   G
    \ /
    G - P - G
    / \
    G G


    Etc, etc, etc...
    #
    ZeXLR8er 11 years ago
    A compromise perhaps? What about being able to deploy space stations? That would require far less work on his part, would still provide a decent feel of base building, be more active since it is also in space and they could serve various purposes. Some with powerful weapons (a space turret if you will) or others could be factories, providing a small steady stream of income for you.

    That way you can have your fort and use it too!
    Now that's do-able.
    And I really like your ideas for the space stations, Uber, very nice. I'll definetly keep them in mind.
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    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er!!" said:
    Now that's do-able.
    And I really like your ideas for the space stations, Uber, very nice. I'll definetly keep them in mind.
    You do realize you were only talking to Uber the whole time? Why did you suddenly stick his name in the middle?
    #
    gold kiros 11 years ago
    How about these forts are starbases which can be upgraded with modules.

    Modules to increase the attk of the station and assist your own ships. Then one that slow enemie movement, make your movement faster, boost it's defense, and your ship's defense.

    Even shields that bounce some of the attk back at the ships.

    ok?
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    that modules idea sounds like its bee ntaken from galactic civilisations if.
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    eug1404 11 years ago
    "Doogsy" said:
    that modules idea sounds like its bee ntaken from galactic civilisations if.
    Yea i knew it sounded familiar, it was either that or the new X2: The Threat expansion comming up, but it's a good idea, notice though that both those games are great, and use that idea.
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "gold kiros" said:
    How about these forts are starbases which can be upgraded with modules.

    Modules to increase the attk of the station and assist your own ships. Then one that slow enemie movement, make your movement faster, boost it's defense, and your ship's defense.

    Wicked Idea! But they should be expensive, so the player can't get them too easily. Upgrade modules should only be usable on stations near planets. Otherwise you will get players that quickly slap down a super station before combat. Stations should only be defensive, but very powerful. (Space stations are large in comparison to spaceships, even capital ships. They can accomodate larger shield generators and weapons.)

    "MageKing17" said:
    You do realize you were only talking to Uber the whole time? Why did you suddenly stick his name in the middle?
    I'm new and get confused easily. (RPG thread, you should know MageKing. ) He is just trying to help me along.
    #
    gold kiros 11 years ago
    If this starbases are going to be expensive players should be able to move them around.

    Would it be possible to pack them to move? The modules will need to be loaded on something or packed in the base's internal bays.

    Then it would propell itself along but be constructed a good distance away from a planet to avoid a chaotic collsion that anniahlates life as we know it.

    Thats how it would be reusable. I know the probs with this.

    People can move right next to the battle thats going to happen and kill them easy or move them to places where a lot of ships gather an kill them easy.
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    eug1404 11 years ago
    If you can pull this of ZeX then you will probably have the honour of creating the most popular Notrium mod ever, i seriously could see people downloading Notrium just to play this mod.
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    Toko 11 years ago
    "gold kiros" said:
    If this starbases are going to be expensive players should be able to move them around.

    Would it be possible to pack them to move? The modules will need to be loaded on something or packed in the base's internal bays.

    Then it would propell itself along but be constructed a good distance away from a planet to avoid a chaotic collsion that anniahlates life as we know it.

    Thats how it would be reusable. I know the probs with this.

    People can move right next to the battle thats going to happen and kill them easy or move them to places where a lot of ships gather an kill them easy.

    if it move. u shoud make it weak so the player must protect it.
    and make it a more popular target for your "pirats"
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "Toko" said:
    "gold kiros" said:
    If this starbases are going to be expensive players should be able to move them around.

    Would it be possible to pack them to move? The modules will need to be loaded on something or packed in the base's internal bays.

    Then it would propell itself along but be constructed a good distance away from a planet to avoid a chaotic collsion that anniahlates life as we know it.

    Thats how it would be reusable. I know the probs with this.

    People can move right next to the battle thats going to happen and kill them easy or move them to places where a lot of ships gather an kill them easy.


    if it move. u shoud make it weak so the player must protect it.
    and make it a more popular target for your "pirats"

    It should be possible to set it up where the bases are a different side and make a double of things like missles and such they only attack bases. They wont be fired unless one is present, AI like that is actually very possible and makes enemies alot more dynamic. You might even have spawners setup on some fringe for random base attacks and something like... Base is being Attacked !! could flash on the screen, which could be done using a counter graphic that blinks on and off.

    If you set up the base attacks you should make sure it never happens if the player is too far away. I believe that would just be frustrating for the player, they should always have some chance of being successful, especially when the mod can potentially be so long and drawn out. I'd really love to see another build on this great mod since the last build was more like a Crimsonland clone than the mod I hear described here
    #
    ZeXLR8er 11 years ago
    If you set up the base attacks you should make sure it never happens if the player is too far away. I believe that would just be frustrating for the player, they should always have some chance of being successful, especially when the mod can potentially be so long and drawn out. I'd really love to see another build on this great mod since the last build was more like a Crimsonland clone than the mod I hear described here
    I don't see how the last build was even similiar to crimsonland (are you thinking of the LOTR mod? ), but wait till you see the new build. So far since my last progress report I've:
    Done 80% of the ship interior (looks pretty amazing),
    Incorperated Forceuser's graphics into the game,
    Added the first full working trial of the Promotion Points system,
    And something I hadn't expected to get in this build: an early trial of a battlefield on a planet, complete with searchlights, machine gun enplacements, trenches, sandbags + several different types of soldiers. Hopefully I will also make it possible to take control of one of the machine guns.

    Well, I may as well say this here: I've got no troubles with using effect 50 to take control of the mg, but how do I make the game turn you back into the human when you want to dismount? I've tried using effect 50 again to turn you into the human creature, but it doesn't seem to work.

    EDIT: Fixed using effect 51 and a dissabling script. I can't figure out how it could be done otherwise; is that how the hoverbike was done, Quanrian or Ville?

    These are the effects that were used for the key on the hoverbike. It also used weild slots by the way.

          51;//effect number
    0.000000;//parameter1
    92.000000;//parameter2
    100.000000;//parameter3
    -2.000000;//parameter4
    50;//effect number
    0.000000;//parameter1
    92.000000;//parameter2
    100.000000;//parameter3
    -2.000000;//parameter4
    56;//effect number
    2.000000;//parameter1
    0.000000;//parameter2
    0.000000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4


    Than you got this script to see if the player toggled the key item, in other words it's not weilded anymore.

    Wielded item disabling script: Condition to check if player is being carried. This will disable the vehicle item when the player no longer is carried. Also checks if the player has ether to fuel the vehicle.;//name
    48;//identifier
    0;//run without calling (set to 0 if you use the script for example as a wield script)
    0;//call position, 0=player location, 1=mouse location
    0;//calling creature 0=player, 1=creature nearest to the mouse, 2=player controlled creature
    1000;//run every n milliseconds
    none;//message
    0;//message type, 0=quick message, 1=journal
    none;//sound, none for nothing
    0;//delay script for n seconds after conditions met
    0;//disabled after first use, 0=no, 1=yes
    begin_conditions;
    33;//condition
    0.000000;//condition parameter0
    0.00000;//condition parameter1
    0;//condition
    75.000000;//condition parameter0
    1.00000;//condition parameter1
    end_conditions;
    begin_effects;
    end_effects;


    I hope that helps you out Zex and you more than likely don't need to use all that, but basically you making the turret into a vehicle so you should use a decent chunk of it. I'd check out how Casanova did his tank as well, but I believe it was done in a 'similar' fashion. I meant Crimsonlandish because it was just one big area and you weren't doing anything but killing enemies, there wasn't really anything to do but kill and survive in that build. If you're that far why isn't there another build yet Make sure you're at least having some select people test your work as you go, because you may miss a thing or two and it can become buried as you go on.
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    Grim Reaper 11 years ago
    I think Quan meant Wazzal II v 0.1, and it WAS pretty much like Crimsonland. Just some ships that shoot at each other...
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "Grim Reaper" said:
    I think Quan meant Wazzal II v 0.1, and it WAS pretty much like Crimsonland. Just some ships that shoot at each other...

    Oh was there another version after that lol ? I guess I need to check out the newer one I was pretty busy with my mod for a while, and the last mod I checked out was Opposing Forces which I found incredibly hard, so I guess got the versions confused at one point. Both this and that mod have alot of real potential though.
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    Grim Reaper 11 years ago
    What? ATM the only Wazzal II version that is released IS 0.1
    #
    Inane 11 years ago
    Whens 0.2 coming out? Im sure most of us are impatient little @#$%s.

    Anywho, All this talk of crimsonland has got me thinking, How about a lightning gun thats similar to CL's (In 0.3 or late), It hits the enemys then splits up and aims for the nearest few more? I think its possible.
    #
    eug1404 11 years ago
    "Inane" said:
    Whens 0.2 coming out? Im sure most of us are impatient little @#$%s.

    Anywho, All this talk of crimsonland has got me thinking, How about a lightning gun thats similar to CL's (In 0.3 or late), It hits the enemys then splits up and aims for the nearest few more? I think its possible.
    Yes there's been quite a lot of mention about Chain Lightning type guns around here lately, but suffice to say without working around the obvious it'll take the next release of Notrium to get them.
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    About the space stations: Could you add the ability to upgrade them with a massive fusion cannon? I'm leaning towards something similar to the Airstrike from Casanova's Opposing Force mod. Before it actually fires the massive beam it first fires a small targeting laser. Then after 3-4 seconds it unleashes a massive thick beam that does high damage. (Not instakill for big ships though but deadly enough to deter them). Can be done similar to Casanova's airstrike. The beam can be done with a custom texture fired rapidly. (Which would also mean that it does low, but very rapid, damage. Effectively high damage but looks more realistic.)

    It would be a welcome addition to enemy fortifications, deterring you from rushing in with capital class ships. Strategic strikes with fighters to disable the weapon would be needed.

    Edit: The targeting beam is just to serve as a warning that where the laser is aiming is going to become a death zone in a few seconds. (The beam should also not be able to turn once firing.)

    [OT] Edit: You can have an invisible creature 1 from a special side drop to act as the target. (Drops near the intended target). The station / spaceship with the fusion beam drops an invisible creature 2 near it that is of a special side. This creature 2 would then be able to fire at special 1 to create the targeting beam and even the big beam. Just freeze the original station / ship until the weapon is done shooting. (Casanova's plot object script would work better, I am just not sure of how you would get the beams to fire from the attacker to the target.) [/OT]
    #
    eug1404 11 years ago
    "UberWaffe" said:
    Strategic strikes with fighters to disable the weapon would be needed.
    That hints at the ULTIMATE FEATURE OF ANY SPACE SHOOTER(tm) ; sub-systems, more specifically damagable sub-systems, if you can knock out there power generator(extremely hard) then they lose all energy based weapons and half to fly at 1/4 speed, knock out the fighter bays and kiss goodbye to them launching any more fighter wings, incinerate there weapons and.... well you get the idea. It would take serious effort to implement this, and it would be pushing the Notrium engine to it's limits, but damn would it rock my world.
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "eug1404" said:
    That hints at the ULTIMATE FEATURE OF ANY SPACE SHOOTER(tm)
    Well, yes. That is what I was hinting at. But not on such a grand scale. Just for the fusion cannon in order to allow your capital ships to go in. But it would be hard and indeed push Notrium's engine. So perhaps just give some fighters EMP weapons so they can disable the entire station long enough for your capital ships to move in an fire.

    You could even restrict the fusion cannons to only fire if the station's EMP/Elec. Insta. bar is at zero. That way even a single missile, though not disabling the station, would disable the weapon. That is easy enough to do.

    Edit: In fact, you could use this method to implement the sub-systems. Each time an emp missile hits then a random number condition decides if a sub-system is put offline for a time. (Increases an invisible bar that reduces over time. Sub-system only works if bar is at zero. Similar to Elec. Insta. bar.)

    But you will have to ask Ville / Quanrian if the engine could handle such a mass of scripts.
    #
    eug1404 11 years ago
    "UberWaffe" said:

    But you will have to ask Ville / Quanrian if the engine could handle such a mass of scripts.
    Never fear, both are keeping watch of this topic and im sure one will post here (relatively) shortly.
    Your ideas are definetely very ingenuous of you UberWaffe, i believe that if you ever embark upon a serious modding project you'd make one awesome mod.
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "eug1404" said:
    "UberWaffe" said:

    But you will have to ask Ville / Quanrian if the engine could handle such a mass of scripts.
    Never fear, both are keeping watch of this topic and im sure one will post here (relatively) shortly.
    Your ideas are definetely very ingenuous of you UberWaffe, i believe that if you ever embark upon a serious modding project you'd make one awesome mod.

    I'm not so sure it would take a mass of scripts unless it was done fairly sloppy. The way you propose to set it up with mass planting of plot objects however has alot of potential to kill the game's speed. I would suggest an alternate method that doesn't require spamming. Casanova's method was very efficient as it only planted one plot object. You're proposing it to plant many in a rapid fire fashion that would be similar if not worse than spamming bullets, which as many know does slow the game down.

    Anyways I'm sure it can be done in an efficient manner, but it may end up being alot of extra work for Zex. I more or less like to see steady progress as that presents far more stable results and gives a more 'realistic' idea of what can be built off. Some ideas just wont be as kewl as you think they are in practice. Not to mention making the AI react properly to really complex happenings is a real hat trick
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:

    I'm not so sure it would take a mass of scripts unless it was done fairly sloppy.
    I meant that even if you have only one script it has to run for dozens of creatures, each with their own bars. I don't have enough know-how of the engine to know whether one script run multiple times can slow the game.

    "Quanrian" said:

    Not to mention making the AI react properly to really complex happenings is a real hat trick.
    That is a real problem. But it is possible, with the creature hit block, to have them fire a 'booster' type weapon at a 90degree (+/-1.6) angle if hit. That would effectively be like dodging. (No AI involved but gives the illusion of intelligent dogfighting.) I'll try some things out and get back to you on this problem.

    Edit: I would also like to see steady progress. The ideas I am suggesting are simply ideas. They aren't meant to be in the game by now, nor ever if he doesn't want to. If you feel I am distracting him then speak up and I will keep quiet until such time that the ideas are being implemented.
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    Feel free to clarify your idea as much as possible, so long as it relates to the mod still you're on topic. However if you do mod what you're suggesting yourself and than give it to Zex I'm sure that will more or less help it get in and keep things moving along smoothly This is a really tough mod in my opinion to by ones self and I'm sure Zex welcomes as much help as possible. I'm just pressing on updates because we're all eager to get a new version, if for nothing else to give us a better idea of what direction the game is going. Talking about a mod and playing it are two completely different things after all
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    I tried the dodge thing and it works, but has problems. I used effect 67 to push the creature sideways if hit. It makes it harder to shoot down your target but the AI seems to sometimes have difficulty relating to this sudden change in position. They get back on your tail more quickly when not shoved around. It is a win/lose situation. But I would opt to pass on this one. (Yes, I am killing my own idea.)

    "Quanrian" said:
    This is a really tough mod in my opinion to by ones self
    Then why doesn't Zex take on some help? There is no reward in doing it alone other than getting ALL the credit. But I would think he would be praised MORE if the mod was completed quicker. (Not by sacrificing quality, get some help.) Even I can mod a unit if I had the graphics and a general idea of how it should be. I don't even need to know what is happening in the rest of the game. I am completely free for the next 3-4 days and can continue even after that, but more slowly. I am sure there are also many others that are willing to take some of the work. It would leave Zex free do consentrate more on combat scripts, level-up systems, etc.
    #
    ZeXLR8er 11 years ago
    Well, its not that simple; I would find it extremely hard to pick up modding again after someone has been working on it, and to really share the load eacch of the modders would have to work on it one at a time, since it would be impossible trying to fit both people's work together. So you would end up with the mod still taking the same amount of time.
    But I'm definetly not disregarding this; those are just my first impressions. Maybe we shoul start up a Wazzal II Modding Panel?
    #
    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er!!" said:
    Well, its not that simple; I would find it extremely hard to pick up modding again after someone has been working on it, and to really share the load eacch of the modders would have to work on it one at a time, since it would be impossible trying to fit both people's work together. So you would end up with the mod still taking the same amount of time.
    But I'm definetly not disregarding this; those are just my first impressions. Maybe we shoul start up a Wazzal II Modding Panel?

    Not particularily Zex I was even speaking to Ville recently about using Netmeeting with share enabled on desktop. What this it allows you to see certain things, like a browser and yes even simple text files like data files They can also be edited remotely by the other person. So in effect if you can get a Netmeeting session going you can synchronize your work quite well by just setting up times you're bother on and than you both load the same file and literally can compare notes. I've not actually tested this theory out, but I'm sure if done right it could be used to great effect. I think since you're going to credit alot of people anyways Zex, you really should take any and all help you can get, no one is going to despute the mod is yours.

    About the strafing UberWaffe, you do get what I mean about things not working very well in practice sometimes ? I mean it's always good to at least try them out, and there might have been a way to adjust the AI during the strafing. Either way, even a good, seemingly simple idea can become relatively complicated very quick and it's only through practice at modding that you realize better what those things are. I do agree with what someone else said though that you should definately get into modding because your ideas are some of the best I've seen so far and they're actually pretty grounded.
    #
    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:
    you do get what I mean about things not working very well in practice sometimes ? I mean it's always good to at least try them out
    Quanrian, I'm taking this advice to heart. I will test the ideas to some extent (as far as possible with v0.1b) before posting them. I have already started reviewing some of the other ideas I have already posted. I have reviewed the EMP system. Where do I post my findings? (I have screenshots of the system at work.)
    #
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