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  • Notrium modding questions/answers

    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    WAZZAL II EMP SYSTEM - HELP NEEDED:

    Problem 1: EMP system is turning out more difficult than anticipated. I can't find any effect that can set a creatures minimum speed to zero for a time.
    Option 1 - I am stuck making the creatures either push themselves forward the entire time and disabling the effect when they are disabled. But this means I have to adjust the maximum speed, turn ratio and the AI still doesn't act properly.
    Option 2 - I have to make the creatures push themselves back when disabled to counter minimum speed.
    Option 3 - Dip into the vast amounts of wisdom of the Forum.

    Question: Is there any other more elegant method? Is there some effect or way to set their minimum speed to zero for a time?

    Ideas? Anyone?

    Problem 2: I have to set the EMP bar to normal type. Tempreture type is not calculated seperately for different units. Thus if you EMP one person, you EMP everyone of the map, including yourself. But Normal type bar cannot be affected by area types. (Weather, plot objects, rain, etc. are all fine.) This is not as serious but is there perhaps an elegant solution to allow areas to effect the bar?
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    eug1404 11 years ago
    "UberWaffe" said:
    WAZZAL II EMP SYSTEM - HELP NEEDED:

    Problem 1: EMP system is turning out more difficult than anticipated. I can't find any effect that can set a creatures minimum speed to zero for a time.
    May i ask why do you need to set a creatures minimum speed to 0, couldn't you just set thier maximum speed to 0 or set use Effect 1 to stop them from moving completely?.
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    i think the minimum speed must be lower than the maximum speed, although i could be wrong. So if the enemies have a minimum speed greater than 0, which I think the do, then you would need to change the minimum speed too.
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    ville 11 years ago
    "ZeXLR8er!!" said:
    Yes, Doogsy's right, I've found that it always works when an effect fails, but the defualt text shows when a condition fails. Is this how its supposed to work, Ville?

    Come to think of it, this must be a bug. The failure text you give should work in any event of failure from the whole item.


    UberWaffe:
    So you want to stop the creature when this EMP happens or what? Changing the minimum speed is not possible, but maybe what you're looking for could be simulated.
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    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "ville" said:
    UberWaffe:
    So you want to stop the creature when this EMP happens or what? Changing the minimum speed is not possible, but maybe what you're looking for could be simulated.
    Yes, I want them to be EMP'd (Stunned) while a certain bar is greater than 75. The problem is that they have a minimum speed above 0 so that they act more like flying units. (Otherwise they stop and shoot like marines). I HAVE given them a minimum speed of 0 and a timed trigger that constantly pushes them forward when not EMP'd. (Kind of like a minimum speed but with a condition). But this doesn't work as smoothly as I had hoped. The system is usuable as it is now, but I would like it to be more elegant. But since it is not possible to change the minimum speed, I can think of no better way to handel this.
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    If you want to reduce somethings speed you'll have to use the same effect used by the Stun Tazor in Notrium. You'd set it to something really low like 0.1.
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    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:
    If you want to reduce somethings speed you'll have to use the same effect used by the Stun Tazor in Notrium. You'd set it to something really low like 0.1.
    That's not the real problem. I have done that but the engine does not want to reduce the creatures speed below the minimum speed specified to that creature.
    1.4;//minimum movement speed
    THAT is my problem. I want the creatures not to be able to stop if not stunned but stop dead when stunned. I have a solution. Just not a elegant one.
    250;//interval in milliseconds
    begin_conditions;
    3;//condition
    2.000000;//condition parameter0
    75.000000;//condition parameter1
    end_conditions;
    begin_effects;
    1;//effect number
    500.000000;//parameter1
    12.000000;//parameter2
    0.000000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4
    end_effects;
    125;//msec : AI MOVE / EMP STOP SCRIPT
    begin_conditions;
    5;//condition
    2.000000;//condition parameter0
    75.000000;//condition parameter1
    end_conditions;
    begin_effects;
    67;//effect number
    0.250000;//parameter1
    0.000000;//parameter2
    0.000000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4
    end_effects;
    The first timed event disables the creature if the bar is above 75. (That is the stun tazor effect.) But this does not stop them when the creatures minimum speed is set to something above 0. (Then it sets its speed to that value). That is my problem.
    I set the creatures minimum speed to 0 and then I put in the second timed event to only run when not stunned but it causes the ships to fly slightly awkwardly. At present it acts as a minimum speed with a condition. Is there a more elegant solution that I am missing?
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    ville 11 years ago
    I don't think there is an elegant solution to that. You could remove the whole minimum speed variable, and get that effect by pushing the creature when it is not EMP'd, but that might not be much better.
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    All the minimum movement speed does really is ensure the ships are in perpetual motion, in other words they don't even brake, rather they can't. With an AI type that does roam or stop and is purely aggressive however you will be just fine because all the creature can do is attack and it will 'automatically' try to go at its maximum speed. You could even set up some built in timed creature effects that change the creature's AI tactic depending on distance from player. By changing the AI you can switch their AI to something else that more closely works in unison with what you're trying to do.
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    UberWaffe 11 years ago
    "ville" said:
    I don't think there is an elegant solution to that. You could remove the whole minimum speed variable, and get that effect by pushing the creature when it is not EMP'd, but that might not be much better.
    Well, that is exactly what I had done and described in my previous post.

    "Quanrian" said:
    You could even set up some built in timed creature effects that change the creature's AI tactic depending on distance from player. By changing the AI you can switch their AI to something else that more closely works in unison with what you're trying to do.
    I had tried that but since they have a ranged weapon they stop when shooting at you. (Unless you give them reason to chase.)

    But I tweaked the pushing effect and it works fine now.
    Thaks for all the help anyways, it is good to know that there is so much aid available.

    I consider this problem solved now but expect me back when I test out another seemingly simple idea.
    #
    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "UberWaffe" said:
    I had tried that but since they have a ranged weapon they stop when shooting at you. (Unless you give them reason to chase.)
    So tell them that their weapon is close-range in creatures.dat. They'll still use it at maximum range, but they will also try to get as close as possible to the player.
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    ville 11 years ago
    I just added a new effect to drop plot_objects with:
    68=drop plot_object parameter1, parameter2=x, parameter3=y, parameter4=rotation of dropped plot_object

    Using that I created a moving plot_object that goes around in circles!
    You just need to set the plot_object to fire on a short interval, and drop a plot_object a few pixels away, then vanish. This causes all sorts of funky problems with collision detection, so beware.
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    B0rsuk 11 years ago
    1.

    Am I right :
    It appears that there are only two ways to affect non-player creatures with effects:

    a) hit effects in weapons.dat
    b) hit effects in creatures.dat (being hit).

    There's practically no way of affecting MANY creatures with SPECIFIED effect... ? Other than start alien attack...

    2.

    Sorry if it was posted somewhere, but I couldn't find it with quick forum searches and I have very limited internet time.
    Is there any site I can upload my mod to ?

    3. Is there any chance that new effects/conditions will be implemented ? Like, for instance, effect is triggered when bullet disappears without hitting anything, or when bullet disappears when hitting obstacle. (it's computed anyway, so I think it wouldn't increase CPU usage) I can provide many more examples. These 2 would allow modding handgrenades.
    --------------
    Another condition I would REALLY like to see would be "player waits X seconds without clicking CANCEL", just like when you're combining items. At the moment when I want my fancy effects take time I have to make weird workarounds. (setting up explosives begs for this condition).
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "B0rsuk" said:
    1.

    Am I right :
    It appears that there are only two ways to affect non-player creatures with effects:

    a) hit effects in weapons.dat
    b) hit effects in creatures.dat (being hit).

    There's practically no way of affecting MANY creatures with SPECIFIED effect... ? Other than start alien attack...

    You can effect MANY creatures by using a plot object. Creatures can interact with plot objects, however you may need to add a timed effect in the creature block depending on how you do it. You could even do something like a spreading virus where one creature goes near another and modifies it simply because perhaps one of its bar is a certain value.

    "B0rsuk" said:
    2.

    Sorry if it was posted somewhere, but I couldn't find it with quick forum searches and I have very limited internet time.
    Is there any site I can upload my mod to ?

    Ville would be more than happy to host your mod for you. So what you need to do is email the mod to him. Somewhere within the email's body of text you should include information on the mod that Ville can add along with it.

    "B0rsuk" said:
    3. Is there any chance that new effects/conditions will be implemented ? Like, for instance, effect is triggered when bullet disappears without hitting anything, or when bullet disappears when hitting obstacle. (it's computed anyway, so I think it wouldn't increase CPU usage) I can provide many more examples. These 2 would allow modding handgrenades.

    You could at the least do the bullet dies without hitting anything by simply using a creature. You simply kill the creature after a certain amount of time. You than setup whatever you want to happen within the creature's death block, making sure to set it to timed death.

    Now as for creature hitting an obstacle. You could again use a creature and simply detect if it is near perhaps a plot object class. You would than simply make all the objects you want to have collision detection the same class or even classes if you don't mind checking more than one.

    The relevant condition for the above is...
    2=must be distance parameter1 + object size from plot_object class parameter0


    "B0rsuk" said:
    --------------
    Another condition I would REALLY like to see would be "player waits X seconds without clicking CANCEL", just like when you're combining items. At the moment when I want my fancy effects take time I have to make weird workarounds. (setting up explosives begs for this condition).

    The only thing I could say to this is either use a bar or item that tallies. So lets say you're assembling a bomb, you could have a bar pop up that shows the progress, but if they move too far away from the bomb than the progress is cancelled and they'd have to start all over again. You could also do something even more interactive where they have to press keys in a set series and if they don't press it than the bar would fall. I mean there really is alot of different things you could, you just got to get creative as I always say.
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    Idiota 11 years ago
    Modders should post in the news topic whenever they finish a new beta. This is so we will have a quick overview of betas and their links.
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    Unc1354m 11 years ago
    ok, this may be really easy, But for my pirate mod, i need to change the steering EG, but ho do i, i need to make the ship turn around instead of just walking w,a,s,d to go that way This is my first mod and ive never done anything leik programming, so pls help
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "Unc1354m" said:
    ok, this may be really easy, But for my pirate mod, i need to change the steering EG, but ho do i, i need to make the ship turn around instead of just walking w,a,s,d to go that way This is my first mod and ive never done anything leik programming, so pls help

    You'd use this effect block exactly, to change to vehicle controls.

        56;//effect number
    2.000000;//parameter1
    0.000000;//parameter2
    0.000000;//parameter3
    0.000000;//parameter4


    You'll need to use this effect again when you want to change it to something else, as on foot isn't as practical using that control scheme. I apologize that the Modding FAQ is out date now, but still use it as much as possible to help get you aquainted with at least the basics. This particular effect is covered in the Modding FAQ, only the newest ones from 1.3+ aren't.
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    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:
    You'll need to use this effect again when you want to change it to something else, as on foot isn't as practical using that control scheme. I apologize that the Modding FAQ is out date now, but still use it as much as possible to help get you aquainted with at least the basics. This particular effect is covered in the Modding FAQ, only the newest ones from 1.3+ aren't.
    I thought the FAQ was made for 1.3, or do you mean from 1.31 up?
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    Unc1354m 11 years ago
    ok, another question, would it be possible to, have buried treasure. (E.G) you need a shovel, and you need to use it where the treasure is at
    #
    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Unc1354m" said:
    ok, another question, would it be possible to, have buried treasure. (E.G) you need a shovel, and you need to use it where the treasure is at
    Yes, that is possible. Just have a plot object be where the treasure is and have the shovel check to see if you are near that plot object.
    #
    Unc1354m 11 years ago
    yay, buried treasure

    Pls could you explain or give the cods
    Thanks
    #
    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Unc1354m" said:
    yay, buried treasure

    Pls could you explain or give the cods
    Thanks
    In Object_Definitions.dat create a new object with the picture of, say, a giant X (X marks the spot). Then open up Plot_Objects.dat and create a new plot object. Finally, open up Items.dat and add a "Shovel" item. The item should have condition 1, where Parameter0 is the identifier number for your plot_object and Parameter1 is so low that the player must be right on top of it for it to work. Then make it delete the plot_object and add the treasure to the player's inventory with effects 40 and 16, respectively.
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    Unc1354m 11 years ago
    Thanks
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    How did you (Ville) get the human clock to match exatcly with the day night cycle? Was this trial and error or did you use some forumla?
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    He didn't I did, and I griped at him for several days till he fixed the timing on scripts to be more accurate so it would actually work Basically it's all done with scripts and bars. All the scripts for the clock are grouped together, so if you find one, you can probably find them all. The clock was actually one of the first things to be put into version 1.3. With some small adjustments you can make it so any race can use it. It did take some trial and error, after using a formula. I originally wasn't even going to use a 12 hour system, at one point I was going to use 10 hours.

    If you're going to use a clock there are some things to consider. Firstly you need to think of a uniform amount of time for the majority of your areas. You'll set up the time in the climate_types.dat file. You'll also want the journals to align properly with this number. Notrium's default day is 200 seconds for example. Now you need to divide the day into minutes and hours. Each hour in a day in Notrium is roughly 8.33 seconds long. Than you divide the hour 60 times to get the minutes

    ----------------------------

    I just thought I'd let you all in on some information since I was testing it myself. The speciality 4 for creatures seems to apply both ways regardless of which creature in the interaction has the specialty. However, one of the creatures in the interaction DOES need to have it. I was able to use the new specialty to allow the player closer than the default collision detection would normally allow before it shoved the player back. I'm only noting this because I personally wasn't sure if I'd have to put it on the player and creatures or just one group. This specialty is especially effective for flying creatures.
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    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Quanrian" said:
    I just thought I'd let you all in on some information since I was testing it myself. The speciality 4 for creatures seems to apply both ways regardless of which creature in the interaction has the specialty. However, one of the creatures in the interaction DOES need to have it. I was able to use the new specialty to allow the player closer than the default collision detection would normally allow before it shoved the player back. I'm only noting this because I personally wasn't sure if I'd have to put it on the player and creatures or just one group. This specialty is especially effective for flying creatures.
    Yes, I was playing around with it so that fighters in Wazzal II could do strafing runs. It worked pretty well, I think.
    #
    Doogsy 11 years ago
    Now you need to divide the day into minutes and hours. Each hour in a day in Notrium is roughly 8.33 seconds long.
    Ok, so why is the in game minute counter increase by 7.2.? I'm just trying to work out if I increase the day length, how much i need to change the clock by.
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    Quanrian 11 years ago
    "Doogsy" said:
    Now you need to divide the day into minutes and hours. Each hour in a day in Notrium is roughly 8.33 seconds long.
    Ok, so why is the in game minute counter increase by 7.2.? I'm just trying to work out if I increase the day length, how much i need to change the clock by.

    My advice is to not use 200 seconds. Use something you can evenly divide by 24. That number should than be able to be evenly divided by 60. That way things will be alot more cut and dry. You could try going backwards and multiplying a number first by 60 and than that number by 24 I suggest for ease though, you stick with days and hours for your clock as minutes will go by so quick it's not a need to calculate them.
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    thanks quan, I think i will just work backwards like you said.
    Oh, and in the player races specialities, how ofter is it updated? For example, the drain food on easy goes down -0.25 every cycle, how ofter doess it occur? once every second, once every millisecond?
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    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Doogsy" said:
    thanks quan, I think i will just work backwards like you said.
    Oh, and in the player races specialities, how ofter is it updated? For example, the drain food on easy goes down -0.25 every cycle, how ofter doess it occur? once every second, once every millisecond?
    I believe it is every second or really close to it. Think about it. 0.25*1000 is 250. Draining 250 per second would be insane.
    #
    Doogsy 11 years ago
    yeah but im pretty sure that it doesnt take 4 seconds to drain one food, if it updates once a second that is.
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    MageKing17 11 years ago
    "Doogsy" said:
    yeah but im pretty sure that it doesnt take 4 seconds to drain one food, if it updates once a second that is.
    Yes it does. It's easy mode, remember?
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    Doogsy 11 years ago
    Oh, thats right. Yes I agree, I think its every second.

    Am I correct in saying that the delay script thing doesn't work when being called from an item?
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    ville 11 years ago
    You are. It calls the script immediately.
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    Eternal 11 years ago
    I'm curious, is there anyway to change the Layer the player or a creature is on (in-game that is)? I'm doing a little experimenting..
    #
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