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Varying Cultures

Daz_T 15 years ago

Hi all.

Just had a thought recently, what do other countries think of my country?

Not that i wish to start WW3 here, i would just like to hear some other views.

To Kick it off, i would like to whinge about a portrayal of my country: Baz Luhrrmanns Australia. Any australian who watches that either laughs their ass off or death stares the tv

Pete 15 years ago

OMG NUKE THEM

On a more (less) serious note, I dont really think much of Australia. Im too busy hating the general population of the USA.

E_net4 15 years ago

"Pete" said:
On a more (less) serious note, I dont really think much of Australia. Im too busy hating the general population of the USA.

Indeed. The USA contains the greatest part of the world's economy.

I hate harmonix for not having yet merchandized Rock Band in Europe, but that's only 1 aspect.

Shingo 15 years ago

"E_net4" said:
"Pete" said:
On a more (less) serious note, I dont really think much of Australia. Im too busy hating the general population of the USA.
Indeed. The USA contains the greatest part of the world's economy.

I hate harmonix for not having yet merchandized Rock Band in Europe, but that's only 1 aspect.

If we so desired we could burn the rest of the world to the ground. Neener neener!

But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? Bullshit. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.

Amarth 15 years ago

"Shingo" said:
But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? Bullshit. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.

I seriously hope that was ironic because it contained so many egocentric, wrong and illogical ideas that I'm quite stupefied.

What's it they say again? DFTT?

Thaif 15 years ago

Woot! This is something I can do even moderately well.

Uh...okay Austria, no wait, Australia: It seems like a decent place, and the scenery is hawt. However some of the stupid shit other countries do, Australia does too, as if to stay a good and true democracy. Can't think of other criticism than that. So yeah: More badass nature shows and less trying to prove your worthiness, you're all good in my book.

And on to the other thing: Culture. Somehow I can't help but feel that in the rant above, the marked issue of alienation and willfull stalling of progress, is the real Big Bad that is disliked. I like culture, if only for it's property to halt and disperse homogeneity. Some people take the culture thing a bit too...authoritatively. This meaning that they KNOW that their culture is superior to others and that it's tenents and morals are right. So begins the thing Shingo so heartily vilified: Differentiation. I hate it too, but the blame falls not on the abstract notion itself(Culture), but on humans themselves. Instead of the judging mentalism, there should be inquisitive inspection. People should do what is right, instead of what is easy. Do not follow the herd or the leaders. There will always be quarell over personal and philosophical differences, and thats fine. Just don't shoot the other guy because you didn't like his way of making soup. Instead, try to ponder on the interesting variety of the cosmos and order a burger.

*steps down from the soapbox and orders a pizza*

Daz_T 15 years ago

I also know that when foriegners think of Australia they think red earth, Kangaroos, Uluru and desert. In other words, Western Australia :p

Where i live is close to Desert but you could probably compare it to africa but with less lions and more roos lol.

But there is definitely a stereotype for countries looking at other countries. when most non americans think of america, they see mcdonalds, statue of liberty and the president of the time.

When foriegners think of China they thinkof wierd food great walls. (When aussies think of China, they think Sydney

)

Interestingly, Shingo's take on american indians sounds DISTURBINGLY similar to stereotypical Aboriginals.. U.S. and Aus have similarities it seems

Idiota 15 years ago

"Shingo" said:
But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? Bullshit. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.

I'm not gonna make a nazi reference here, but there's still a lot more wrong with that post.

Let's start with the indians. You're saying that when their lands were invaded and claimed, where they had lived for centuries, they should have just packed their bags and joined the 'great western civilization.' What would you do if a totally foreign culture you had never even heard about invaded your country and called it it's own? I'd cling to whatever culture I had.

You forget that the original afro-americans were brought into the US as slaves for the whites. How can you even expect the african culture to blend in with a culture that despises africans? There's never been the melting pod you claim. Allways there was the western culture, and the other cultures would just have to blend in. They were expected to blend in, but they were never accepted because the western civilization was racist towards everything non-white. The cultural differences you see in the US today are for a big part forced upon said cultures when they were not accepted in normal societies. To say that it was their own fault because of their own stupid culture, is a lot like pointing and laughing at a man suffering from polio falling down when you pushed him.

I understand why you think that the world would be a better place if there were no cultural differences, Shingo, because I agree. But the fact that it isn't is a consequence of events that happened in the past, and not the answer of a mulitpiple choice question asking wether they want to be a part of society or not. I've shifted from left to right the last few years, but these statements go beyond beliefs and they're just dead wrong.

Ahem...

I think the Australian culture is awesome because people greet eachother with 'G'day mate! Howyerdowin?' on the streets, Steve Erwin and Rex's Fishing Adventures. Oh, and australian people I meet on the web are generally ok chaps, so yeah. Not every country spawns polite and sincere gamers. (Read: Dutch gamers suck) [quote="Shingo"]But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? Bullshit. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.[/quote] I'm not gonna make a nazi reference here, but there's still a lot more wrong with that post. Let's start with the indians. You're saying that when their lands were invaded and claimed, where they had lived for centuries, they should have just packed their bags and joined the 'great western civilization.' What would you do if a totally foreign culture you had never even heard about invaded your country and called it it's own? I'd cling to whatever culture I had. You forget that the original afro-americans were brought into the US as slaves for the whites. How can you even expect the african culture to blend in with a culture that despises africans? There's never been the melting pod you claim. Allways there was the western culture, and the other cultures would just have to blend in. They were expected to blend in, but they were never accepted because the western civilization was racist towards everything non-white. The cultural differences you see in the US today are for a big part forced upon said cultures when they were not accepted in normal societies. To say that it was their own fault because of their own stupid culture, is a lot like pointing and laughing at a man suffering from polio falling down when you pushed him. I understand why you think that the world would be a better place if there were no cultural differences, Shingo, because I agree. But the fact that it isn't is a consequence of events that happened in the past, and not the answer of a mulitpiple choice question asking wether they want to be a part of society or not. I've shifted from left to right the last few years, but these statements go beyond beliefs and they're just dead wrong. Ahem... I think the Australian culture is awesome because people greet eachother with 'G'day mate! Howyerdowin?' on the streets, Steve Erwin and Rex's Fishing Adventures. Oh, and australian people I meet on the web are generally ok chaps, so yeah. Not every country spawns polite and sincere gamers. (Read: Dutch gamers suck)

Shingo 15 years ago

"Idiota" said:
"Shingo" said:
But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? [censored]. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.

I'm not gonna make a nazi reference here, but there's still a lot more wrong with that post.

Let's start with the indians. You're saying that when their lands were invaded and claimed, where they had lived for centuries, they should have just packed their bags and joined the 'great western civilization.' What would you do if a totally foreign culture you had never even heard about invaded your country and called it it's own? I'd cling to whatever culture I had.

You forget that the original afro-americans were brought into the US as slaves for the whites. How can you even expect the african culture to blend in with a culture that despises africans? There's never been the melting pod you claim. Allways there was the western culture, and the other cultures would just have to blend in. They were expected to blend in, but they were never accepted because the western civilization was racist towards everything non-white. The cultural differences you see in the US today are for a big part forced upon said cultures when they were not accepted in normal societies. To say that it was their own fault because of their own stupid culture, is a lot like pointing and laughing at a man suffering from polio falling down when you pushed him.

I understand why you think that the world would be a better place if there were no cultural differences, Shingo, because I agree. But the fact that it isn't is a consequence of events that happened in the past, and not the answer of a mulitpiple choice question asking wether they want to be a part of society or not. I've shifted from left to right the last few years, but these statements go beyond beliefs and they're just dead wrong.

Ahem...

I think the Australian culture is awesome because people greet eachother with 'G'day mate! Howyerdowin?' on the streets, Steve Erwin and Rex's Fishing Adventures. Oh, and australian people I meet on the web are generally ok chaps, so yeah. Not every country spawns polite and sincere gamers. (Read: Dutch gamers suck)

You're damn right they should have packed their bags and joined with the obvious winners of the conflict. Yes it sucks that their land was taken yes it sucks that a lot of them were killed, yes it sucks that the treaties made with them were broken, and a good many other things. However, that's um.... nothing special. A quick overview of the history of the world shows us that, although it stinks to experience, this is what happens when a strong group of people decides it wants something. And when a group of people says "fuck you, people who beat us," and refuses to comingle and become part of the conquering faction, they will end up rather... screwed.

And you damn right I'll say their current predicament is just as much their fault as anyone else's. They could have stepped up to the plate, grew a pair and realized that complete membership in America, with the commercial, education, medical, and other benefits that entails - is a hell of a lot better than living on second rate reservations and clinging to an ancient culture. That. Gets. Them. Absolutely. Nowhere.

The points you bring up about racism? Yeah, I can see that. On the other hand, when did ye olde indian tribes ever try to blend in? Never that I can recall. It's always been: we're a proud race of proud people that has a proud culture and we will not abandon it for the white man. Stiff upper lip and all, little bear. [quote="Idiota"][quote="Shingo"]But on a more serious note.... I'd have to say that I think culture is worthless. All it has ever done is serve to divide people into groups of "us" and "them." i.e. cowboys and indians. Romans and barbarians. Germans and Jews. Chinese and Japanese. Russians and Gypsies. East vs West. I think the analogy is blindingly obvious. And let us delve further into American Indians and their current condition. Their culture has done nothing good for them. It has encouraged them to stay on a reservation where they will likely NOT get good education, health care, and other standards of living. It has served to separate them from mainstream America and the success and happiness that the majority of it's citizens have achieved over the course of history. If the Indians had jumped into the "Melting Pot" of America, along with most of the people that live in America, why they'd be just as successful as everyone else, albeit with straight hair and little to no facial hair. But since they didn't, they're isolated and are clearly worse off for it. Pride in your culture? [censored]. When's the last time that put food into a child's mouth or kept them clothed? Other people can cling to the divisions of the past, I'll take my big mac and whatever else the world has to offer and leave my 'culture' at the door.[/quote] I'm not gonna make a nazi reference here, but there's still a lot more wrong with that post. Let's start with the indians. You're saying that when their lands were invaded and claimed, where they had lived for centuries, they should have just packed their bags and joined the 'great western civilization.' What would you do if a totally foreign culture you had never even heard about invaded your country and called it it's own? I'd cling to whatever culture I had. You forget that the original afro-americans were brought into the US as slaves for the whites. How can you even expect the african culture to blend in with a culture that despises africans? There's never been the melting pod you claim. Allways there was the western culture, and the other cultures would just have to blend in. They were expected to blend in, but they were never accepted because the western civilization was racist towards everything non-white. The cultural differences you see in the US today are for a big part forced upon said cultures when they were not accepted in normal societies. To say that it was their own fault because of their own stupid culture, is a lot like pointing and laughing at a man suffering from polio falling down when you pushed him. I understand why you think that the world would be a better place if there were no cultural differences, Shingo, because I agree. But the fact that it isn't is a consequence of events that happened in the past, and not the answer of a mulitpiple choice question asking wether they want to be a part of society or not. I've shifted from left to right the last few years, but these statements go beyond beliefs and they're just dead wrong. Ahem... I think the Australian culture is awesome because people greet eachother with 'G'day mate! Howyerdowin?' on the streets, Steve Erwin and Rex's Fishing Adventures. Oh, and australian people I meet on the web are generally ok chaps, so yeah. Not every country spawns polite and sincere gamers. (Read: Dutch gamers suck)[/quote] You're damn right they should have packed their bags and joined with the obvious winners of the conflict. Yes it sucks that their land was taken yes it sucks that a lot of them were killed, yes it sucks that the treaties made with them were broken, and a good many other things. However, that's um.... nothing special. A quick overview of the history of the world shows us that, although it stinks to experience, this is what happens when a strong group of people decides it wants something. And when a group of people says "fuck you, people who beat us," and refuses to comingle and become part of the conquering faction, they will end up rather... screwed. And you damn right I'll say their current predicament is just as much their fault as anyone else's. They could have stepped up to the plate, grew a pair and realized that complete membership in America, with the commercial, education, medical, and other benefits that entails - is a hell of a lot better than living on second rate reservations and clinging to an ancient culture. That. Gets. Them. Absolutely. Nowhere. The points you bring up about racism? Yeah, I can see that. On the other hand, when did ye olde indian tribes ever try to blend in? Never that I can recall. It's always been: we're a proud race of proud people that has a proud culture and we will not abandon it for the white man. Stiff upper lip and all, little bear.

Crazy 15 years ago

Shingo, you make the folly of equating happiness with a welfare state. Which quite blatantly untrue. Or, in americanese, "dead fucking wrong." As you've already heard heralded, Indians are statistically the happiest nation in the world. Have you seen Slumdog Millionaire? It really wasn't exaggerated.

Humans are not able to accurate estimate their emotional status in a future situation. In other words, money and the things it will buy will not make you happy. What will make you happy is overcoming hardship on your own, having both positive and negative (yes, negative ones are just as important) social contacts and seeing actual physical results from your work, three things that are distinctly lacking in a welfare state with advanced internet connections and a great heap on office work. Long story short, the indians might have it better off.(If you're reading this and realizing i'm pretty much describing all of us, just make something with your hands. I fixed a faucet the other day and was on top of the world for 2 hours.)

The melting pot you claim is rather working, however. It seems in our lifetime we will most likely see the US host whites as a minority. Which is hilariously ironic considering the origins of the melting pot concept.

But no, really, culture is freaking awesome. I don't know how it works on the other side of the pond, but with historical reenactment i'm really starting to see how European cultures collide. And it's fucking awesome. You hate those damn Latvians because of that stupid useless maneuver they're doing and love them at the same time because they have testes the size of millstones for trying it. Then you have a beer and yell ethnical slurs at each other and laugh merrily. Huge fun, i tell you.

I'unno much about Australians. They live a life surrounded by a large variety of poisonous animals and i don't want to go there because it's hot. There was that movie, too, which was awesome.

Daz_T 15 years ago

"Crazy" said:
I'unno much about Australians. They live a life surrounded by a large variety of poisonous animals and i don't want to go there because it's hot.

Lol. Not that much is poisonous. a couple of snakes and jellyfish and other Marine critters are. However, foriegners, Beware the (sometimes) dangerous Kangaroo! When they "box" they can rip your guts out!
If youre worried about the heat, go to tasmania or victoria, but you wont see any Baz Luhrrmann-ish scenery.
where i live it can be 48 degrees C. as an average.

"Crazy" said:
There was that movie, too, which was awesome.

Now, the movie you say is awesome? Interesting... we all think its wayyyyy over the top and horridly over dramatic. Not to mention the fact that the featured mountain range is south of their property, and Darwin is to the north.

Idiota 15 years ago

"Crazy" said:
There was that movie, too, which was awesome.

Crocodile Dundee?

Anonymous1157 15 years ago

When I first looked at the title of this thread, it did not occur to me that an interesting... "discussion" could spawn from it. (See Shingo's posts

)

Anyhow, I haven't heard much about Australia. I almost forgot it existed, which seems weird because it doesn't seem like that bad of a country when you look at it. Really, apart from celebrities dying, what international news comes from Australia?

... Now, shifting topics a bit, does anyone have anything to say about South American countries? I'm Argentinian myself.

Idiota 15 years ago

La Muerta! Peruda!

If you don't get it you should watch more South Park.

Amarth 15 years ago

"Anonymous1157" said:
... Now, shifting topics a bit, does anyone have anything to say about South American countries? I'm Argentinian myself.

...You are? I thought you were from the USA.

I've been to Brazil once. Interesting, really. Lots of contrasts. Beautiful nature, contrasting with sometimes filthy cities with a mix of traditional culture (capoeira, various foods, ...) and modern culture (music and the goddamn Heineken). And that contrasting with the favelas around the cities.

Anarion 15 years ago

"Daz_T" said:
when foriegners think of Australia they think red earth, Kangaroos, Uluru and desert. In other words, Western Australia

..and also the Northern Territory, South Australia, and parts of Northern Queensland.

"Anonymous1157" said:
what international news comes from Australia?

I consider that a good thing. International news tends to mostly be about bad stuff i've noticed.

"Daz_T" said:
its wayyyyy over the top and horridly over dramatic.

Oh good, another reason for me never to watch it.

"Daz_T" said:
Interestingly, Shingo's take on american indians sounds DISTURBINGLY similar to stereotypical Aboriginals.

Same situation, different country mate. The ol' british empire never did show much respect towards the indigenous peoples of the countries they settled.

Murska 15 years ago

In somewhat related news to the topic, I'm off to Japan for ten days tomorrow. And guess what that means? School's Out!

Anonymous1157 15 years ago

"Amarth" said:
"Anonymous1157" said:
... Now, shifting topics a bit, does anyone have anything to say about South American countries? I'm Argentinian myself.
...You are? I thought you were from the USA.

I've been to Brazil once. Interesting, really. Lots of contrasts. Beautiful nature, contrasting with sometimes filthy cities with a mix of traditional culture (capoeira, various foods, ...) and modern culture (music and the goddamn Heineken). And that contrasting with the favelas around the cities.

Well, I am. I'm only American because I'm a citizen of said country, but I was born in Argentina. By a similar token, I'm Russian.

I heard that Brazil is full of pawn shops that sell cheap imitations. You can get a Genesis with one of those hundred-game carts for less than $20. <.<

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