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    Werewolf 8 - The Experiment

    Vacuus 14 years ago
    Zankman, it's not 'smart' or 'aggressive' playing if you're running around screaming bloody murder when I did something out of the norm that puts me in a relatively secure position.

    Just because you said it doesn't happen, doesn't mean it wont. Again, it's called strategy - and in fact I'm significantly more likely to do whatever you don't want me to after you've been so damned naive

    It's not all about self sacrifice and 'furthering the civilian goal', no-one wants to die this early on and you can't honestly tell me you'd sacrifice yourself for someone who may or may not be someone more important. If you would, either let yourself be lynched or suicide right now. If not, shut up about a 'common civilian role' because it quite obviously doesn't exist else we wouldn't all clash like this.

    I did what I did because it puts me in a position where I'm significantly less likely to be lynched regardless of what I say to others. People quite often try to be overly clever and read too much into other people's comments, quite like you're doing now - by reducing my chances I can be more upfront about things which will only benefit us in the long run.

    As for the infected, why would they kill me? There are no regular players in this game (unless I'm mistaken) and practically all the other roles are more dangerous to them. Why should they take out someone who has a significantly better chance of killing a civilian (two with one stone, sort of thing) if lynched?

    That actually makes me think you're infected or a really stupid village idiot, there are significantly better ways to draw attention to yourself other than trying to call me out on playing the game differently.

    For that reason, I'm really tempted to lynch you but I think it'd draw too much attention to me if I start lynching anyone who doesn't believe me. I don't think we should live in fear of the village idiot for ever, though.

    But hey, if you don't believe me Zankerman then lynch me. Whether I'm the village idiot or the CWV, you'll still (most likely) loose.
    #
    Amarth 14 years ago
    The main reason I think no-one is lying, or rather why I think it is safe enough to believe no-one is lying, is because there haven't been any double-claims yet. We had the CWV and the doppleganger claimed, the CWV knows the seer, the first victim knows the angel, I know about my role as does everyone else about his role, and still no-one has screamed murder yet about double roles. So yeah. I don't think people would be silent when they notice a false claim, especially of the sort made by Vacuus.

    Of course, I can't rule out people not following the thread or the cupid couple doing strategic things, but still. I believe most that has been revealed until now.

    "Vacuus" said:
    As for the infected, why would they kill me?
    Mainly because the villagers won't kill you by day anyway?
    #
    Vacuus 14 years ago
    True enough, but more specifically why kill me now? As I said, practically every other civilian is more dangerous than I and it's not like they can miss. They'd be better of waiting until the more important targets have been picked off before getting rid of me anyway.
    #
    Endymion 14 years ago
    I think someone might have lied to me.
    I'm confused and I don't know what to do... it's awesome

    Grim hasn't said anything. I might vote to lynch him if he doesn't.

    Also I wonder who was the one that was protected. Why isn't it said who was attacked? Not saying it's bad or anything, just wondering.
    #
    Murska 14 years ago
    Lynching someone randomly when there's a role in the game that wins and ends the game by being lynched is a bad idea.

    After all, okay, the wolves will kill someone tonight. The telepath will figure out another player's role. That player might be good or evil. Unless the telepath is killed, we are now in a better position, since the bad guys have less places to hide. If the telepath is killed, we've lost one villager-sided player for little benefit(unless Finder got something) but if we do randomly lynch, we would most likely kill a villager-sided player, putting us farther behind, or kill the idiot, losing the game. I find when weighing the odds of 'Telepath is killed by the bad guys tonight or we happen to lynch one of the bad guys randomly.' and 'Anything else happens.', the latter seems more likely.

    Since I'm almost certain that Vacuus is not, in fact, a bad guy, considering that he would have ensured his death twice over by claiming to be a role he's not AND claiming to have been checked by the Telepath as a role he's not, I propose we appoint Vacuus as the Mayor.
    #
    Anarion 14 years ago
    I'm going to rescind my earlier vote for myself as mayor and join Murska in voting for Vacuus for Mayor. As far as lynching goes, while I realise there's not much point in abstaining now, I haven't decided on who to vote for.
    #
    Endymion 14 years ago
    One reason that I can think of for infected to kill Vacuus would be that he can reveal one of them without revealing the telepath. That is if we trust him enough which wolves surely wouldn't want.

    also I'll change my mayor vote to vacuus and as long as everyone posts no lynch
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    Looks fair to me. I will step back from attempting to be mayor and put my Mayor vote on Vacuus as well.
    #
    Narvius 14 years ago
    After some discussion, I also came to the conclusion that Vacuus would make an excellent Mayor.
    #
    Shingo 14 years ago
    I am the seer, and Kario is Infected. I realize this is a bit late, and I apologize for that - I've been playing League of Legends with a fiendish intensity these past weeks. I ask only that we lynch Kario and that upon verification of his Infection, that I be acknowledged as seer via angel protection for the next night cycle, so that this doesn't immediately backfire onto me. I have not made contact with Vacuus, nor have I seen him, as such I cannot adequately refute or confirm his status as CWV, other than to again verify that we have not made contact.

    Edit: Vote to Lynch Kario, no vote for Mayor
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    But didn't you say you hadn't seen the game starting on IRC? Also, you were sort of confused about the roles. Unless you faked all that, you're also faking the role of the telepath. But oh well.

    Ah, not to mention the fact that you made me consider doing a non-lynch day. Even if we hit an infected, he'd be replaced by the Absorber. I change my lynch vote to no person, as in not voting to lynch Zankman.
    #
    Murska 14 years ago
    Since we have a counterclaim for Vacuus, I'll vote for no Mayor.
    #
    Endymion 14 years ago
    So unless Shingo is willing to cancel his vote(I wish he would we already got E to agree :/ ) we'll either have to vote for someone(him?) or let him lynch kario...

    Hmm if kario indeed is a wolf wouldn't he(or the other wolves) kill Shingo during the night? Or would they refrain from it to not "prove" shingo right and let kario get lynched the next day. I don't know... I'll just wait and see.


    Also here's the irc log about ww so far(it's long and boring.) in short I remind shingo about ww we argue a little about Vacuus claim and some talk about rules/stuff Grim says he's too busy to post now but plans to do so.
    [19:18] <+Endymion> Shingo we're playing ww and apparently you're in it too!
    [19:19] <%Shingo> cool
    [19:19] <%Shingo> You refer to the one MK is/was running?
    [19:19] <!Grim_Reaper> He is?
    [19:19] <!Grim_Reaper> Huh.
    [19:19] <%Shingo> bc I kind of went criminally afk.
    [19:19] <%Shingo> D:
    [19:19] <+Anarion> You haven't missed it yet
    [19:19] <%Shingo> Just got back to IRC yesterday.
    [19:19] <%Shingo> better log onto the forums.
    [19:20] <+E_net4> Ugh.
    [19:20] <%Shingo> OMFG
    [19:20] <%Shingo> OMFG
    [19:20] <%Shingo> :D
    [19:20] <+E_net4> You've missed some deal, though.
    [19:20] <%Shingo> What deal?
    [19:20] <%Shingo> ><
    [19:21] <+E_net4> The night? I'm not saying you guys have a night action, but if you do... you just lost it.
    [19:21] <%Shingo> Lucky me, then.
    [19:21] <+E_net4> Totally. :P
    [19:21] <%Shingo> Any wolfkills?
    [19:21] <+Anarion> Ok, model work done for tonight. I'm off
    02[19:21] * +Anarion (~Anarion@823cf43.3b87238b.iinet.net.au) Quit (Quit: OH NOES!!!)
    01[19:22] <+Endymion> no angel was lucky
    01[19:22] <+Endymion> and vacuus says he's war veteran and will kill seer if he's lynched.
    [19:23] <%Shingo> What does War Veteran do now?
    [19:23] <%Shingo> And how does Vacuus know who the seer is?
    01[19:23] <+Endymion> he told him
    [19:23] <%Shingo> Oh. o.o
    01[19:23] <+Endymion> or so he claims
    [19:23] <%Shingo> Well we'd better get seeing him real quick, I guess.
    [19:24] <%Shingo> BUt why would the veteran threaten the seer, if he's lynched?
    [19:24] <%Shingo> This makes  no sense to me.
    [19:24] <+Narvius> Read the forum post, then!
    [19:24] <+Narvius> NOW.
    [19:25] <+E_net4> Indeed. You're doing nothing but declaring your ignorance of the situation. :P
    [19:25] <+E_net4> of/on/whatev
    [19:26] <!Grim_Reaper> Unless of course his ignorance is a feint and he's actually wolf. Either that, or rubber trousers.
    [19:26] <+E_net4> Totally rubber trousers.
    [19:26] <+E_net4> Not sure about the rubber, though.
    01[19:29] <+Endymion> I totally feel like I should mention something but I think it would actually help wolves :/
    [19:31] <%Shingo> OH man.
    [19:31] <%Shingo> that's....
    [19:31] <%Shingo> hard.
    [19:31] <%Shingo> Vacuus has made an interesting gambit.
    [19:33] <+E_net4> I assume by now that everyone read the posts.
    [19:33] <%Shingo> Do you guys think MK will tell us the number of infected we're dealing with, if we petition him as a group to do so?
    [19:33] <+Narvius> No.
    [19:33] <%Shingo> Bugger.
    [19:34] <+E_net4> No need.
    01[19:34] <+Endymion> there are 3
    [19:34] <%Shingo> That is only speculation, at this point.
    [19:34] <+Narvius> That's likely, yes.
    [19:34] <+E_net4> There are no common-villagers, in fact.
    [19:34] <+Narvius> It might become 4, though.
    [19:34] <+E_net4> At least we assume there isn't.
    [19:34] <+E_net4> Unlikely, I say.
    [19:34] <%Shingo> Could become up to 5 if both doppel and aer both get wolfed.
    [19:34] <+E_net4> That's 3 out of 10.
    [19:35] <+Narvius> We're 11?
    [19:35] <+E_net4> Yes, but one of us will be lynched.
    01[19:35] <+Endymion> in the intro it says everyone got infected
    [19:35] <+Narvius> Hm. :/
    [19:35] <+Narvius> Yes, because everyone GOT infected.
    [19:35] <+Narvius> There are only a handful MALICIOUS infected ones.
    [19:35] <+Narvius> Everyone else got awesome superpowers instead.
    [19:35] <+Narvius> Or weapons.
    [19:35] <+Narvius> Or whatever.
    [19:36] <+E_net4> WEPON
    [19:36] <+Narvius> Rite.
    [19:36] <%Shingo> I think Vacuus is the idiot.
    [19:36] <+E_net4> So he picked it up and fired really fast at zombie goasts.
    [19:36] <+Narvius> Why so?
    [19:36] <+E_net4> In front of a house
    [19:36] <+E_net4> Dude, why would a village idiot want to be mayor?
    [19:36] <+E_net4> I mean, wat.
    [19:37] <%Shingo> Okay, let's say I'm the seer.
    [19:37] <+Narvius> Did Vacuus at any point claim his want to be a mayor?
    [19:37] <%Shingo> I have identified someone who is on team Villagers.
    [19:37] <%Shingo> Why would that person 1. declare themselves, and 2. threaten to kill me upon lynching
    01[19:37] <+Endymion> it can't get to five since one wolf would have to die first
    [19:37] <%Shingo> IF we wanted a declare
    [19:37] <%Shingo> isn't it better for the seer to out himself and ask for angel protection?
    [19:38] <+Narvius> Oh yes.
    [19:38] <%Shingo> As it is
    [19:38] <+Narvius> "Hey dudez, I'm the seer. Protect me or something, I might die otherwise."
    [19:38] <+Narvius> REALLY smart move.
    [19:38] <+E_net4> XD
    [19:38] <%Shingo> It's a gambit, for sure.
    [19:38] <+E_net4> Note that the telepath was not revealed in this case.
    [19:38] <%Shingo> But it's a better gambit than a CWV doing it AND threatening the seer.
    [19:38] <%Shingo> Yes
    [19:38] <+Narvius> No.
    [19:38] <%Shingo> but now the telepath will likely not be receiving angel protection
    [19:39] <%Shingo> Because Mr. Ballstothewall CWV will (likely?) get it.
    [19:39] <+E_net4> Um..
    [19:39] <%Shingo> If he is telling the truth, he has still drawn away angel protection from the most important villager.
    01[19:40] <+Endymion> (I doubt wolves would want us to believe vacuus so...
    [19:40] <+E_net4> You know, losing the "best villager" has happened before. And it didn't make them lose.
    [19:40] <+E_net4> See WW 4 and probably WW6.
    [19:40] <%Shingo> What we ought to do, imo - is be suspicious of him and treat him as a hostile until we get some verification of his claim.
    [19:41] <%Shingo> I'm not suggesting a lynch
    [19:41] <%Shingo> But I definitely do not trust such claims, for the reasons I have mentioned.
    [19:41] <+E_net4> Heh. Look who stepped up.
    [19:42] <+Narvius> The point of Vacuus gambit isn't really to tell us on which side he is, but to secure his own ass.
    [19:42] <+Narvius> So.
    [19:43] <%Shingo> He has secured his own ass by presumably not getting lynched, but what about at night.
    [19:43] <%Shingo> Do we assume that the angel should protect him?
    [19:43] <+E_net4> You're sort of late here. Vacuus's got some votes for mayor ATM.
    [19:43] <%Shingo> If so, the angel is not protecting more important people.
    [19:43] <+E_net4> What kind of important people? The village idiot?
    [19:43] <%Shingo> Seer.
    [19:43] <+Narvius> I don't really think Vacuus is in danger... as he said, there are more dangerous villagers to kill.
    [19:44] <+E_net4> That's one out of many other classes, mister.
    [19:44] <%Shingo> Or is it called the telepath.
    [19:44] <%Shingo> If we want to win, I think the goals are simple.
    [19:44] <%Shingo> 1. Not out the angel
    [19:44] <%Shingo> 2. Make sure the telepath doesn't die.
    [19:44] <+Narvius> The rules are even easier.
    [19:44] <+Narvius> 1. Don't fuck up.
    [19:44] <+Narvius> 2. ...?
    [19:44] <%Shingo> I don't understand how my argument isn't being followed.
    [19:44] <+Narvius> 3. Profit!
    [19:44] <+E_net4> :D
    [19:45] <!Grim_Reaper> Who's the telepath again?
    [19:45] <%Shingo> Because, and let me say it slowly
    [19:45] <+E_net4> Grim: Who knows?
    [19:45] <%Shingo> Eh... nvm.
    [19:45] <!Grim_Reaper> I.e. telepath = which role
    [19:45] <%Shingo> I'm not going to try to make this discussion
    [19:45] <%Shingo> Telepath is the seer dude
    [19:45] <+E_net4> It's right in the first pos.
    [19:45] <!Grim_Reaper> Right.
    [19:45] <%Shingo> that scans people for roles
    [19:45] <+E_net4> post*
    [19:47] <+Narvius> I'd say mayoring Vacuus has more benefits than drawbacks.
    [19:52] <%Shingo> Part of me wants to lynch Zankman, but another stronger part of me worries that we can't afford the possibility that he is teling the truth and will kill the seer.
    [19:52] <+E_net4> Zankman never said he was going to kill the telepath.
    [19:52] <%Shingo> B legh
    [19:52] <%Shingo> *vacuus
    [19:52] <%Shingo> Silly confusion of names. D:
    [19:52] <+E_net4> They're pretty different.
    [19:53] <%Shingo> They are the persons of my interest atm.
    [19:53] <%Shingo> E, why do you reject the stance of a non-lynch day at this point in the game?
    01[19:53] <+Endymion> yes I want to know too
    [19:55] <+E_net4> I admit I did not consider that possibility. It's not that I want people dead, but you're right. There's the Aer-huh Absorber. Letting him take a role might be doable.
    [19:56] <%Shingo> Oh man.
    [19:56] <%Shingo> This is gonna be a crazy game with both an aer and a doppel.
    01[19:58] <+Endymion> brb
    [19:58] <+E_net4> Worse is the maniac.
    [19:59] <%Shingo> Well
    [19:59] <%Shingo> Brb
    [19:59] <%Shingo> posting.
    01[20:05] <+Endymion> Grim Reaper: do you plan to post anything?
    [20:05] <!Grim_Reaper> When I am not swamped with schoolwork and/or can be arsed.
    01[20:06] <+Endymion> ok
    [20:07] <%Shingo> I have posted, and I suspect it will be of interest.
    01[20:09] <+Endymion> I dont see it! :(
    [20:09] <%Shingo> http://www.instantkingdom.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3850&p=84378#p84378
    01[20:09] <+Endymion> now I do :
    [20:09] <+Murska> ...wait. hmm.
    [20:12] <+Amarth> wtf wtf tf
    [20:12] <+Amarth> We are all going to die
    [20:13] <+Amarth> Shingo: didn't you say you were absent and that you missed your night action?
    [20:13] <%Shingo> No.
    [20:13] <%Shingo> Let me grab the line.
    [20:13] <%Shingo> <E_net4> The night? I'm not saying you guys have a night action, but if you do... you just lost it.
    [20:13] <%Shingo> <Shingo> Lucky me, then.
    [20:13] <%Shingo> I implied.
    [20:14] <+Amarth> You implied you had no night action :P
    [20:14] <%Shingo> Yes.
    [20:14] <%Shingo> I think this is a win-win scenario for me as seer.
    [20:14] <%Shingo> If 1. Kario is lynched, well good - wolf gone. 
    01[20:14] <+Endymion> Last I checked he had logged in 16.9.2010
    [20:15] <%Shingo> 2. If for whatever reason I die an untimely death, the Aer will replace me.
    [20:15] <+Amarth> 16th would be during the night I think
    [20:15] <%Shingo> Indeed.
    01[20:15] <+Endymion> (I stalk peoples log in time ;_
    [20:15] <+Amarth> Well, if we lynch kario, he gets replaced by the aer obv
    01[20:15] <+Endymion> *times
    [20:15] <%Shingo> Now the downside
    [20:15] <+Amarth> so we're no step further
    [20:16] <%Shingo> is that yes, the Aer will replace Kario if I succeed.
    [20:16] <+Amarth> Except for not having lynched the VI I guess
    [20:17] <+Amarth> So if we do no lynch right now, the wolves will kill
    [20:17] <+Amarth> and the aer will take over whatever we lose
    [20:17] <%Shingo> And what if the wolves kill the village idiot?
    [20:17] <+Amarth> And we gain information during the night.
    [20:17] <+Amarth> *shrug* we still have the information then
    [20:17] <%Shingo> I just outted myself.
    [20:17] <%Shingo> If the angel goes kaput, I am a goner.
    [20:18] <+Amarth> Not much we can do about that, right?
    [20:18] <%Shingo> We can bloody well get on with it.
    [20:18] <+Amarth> Lynching now does not get us anywhere.
    [20:18] <+Amarth> It removes the net the aer gives us
    [20:18] <+Amarth> We can't do better than do nothing and gain information during the night.
    [20:19] <%Shingo> I'm voting for Kario, and I repeat that he is a wolf and that I am not going to play this waiting game.
    03[20:20] * Joozey (~Joozey@7f8dc.21b52b10.cable.casema.nl) has joined #monkkonenchat
    03[20:20] * VilleBot sets mode: +v Joozey
    [20:31] <+E_net4> Whatev, Shingo.
    [20:31] <%Shingo> ?
    [20:31] <%Shingo> I do not know what to make of your statement.
    [20:32] <+E_net4> No, I was doing some physics "homework", so I stopped caring.
    [20:33] <+Murska> nah my opinion is
    [20:33] <+Murska> that since vacuus is lying
    [20:33] <+Murska> if shingo isn't
    [20:33] <+Murska> we get 2 infected at the price of one if we make sure who of them 
    [20:33] <+Murska> is
    [20:34] <+E_net4> Otherwise, we loose both the Jedi and the Telepath if Vacuus is right. No point.
    06[20:35] * +E_net4 goes back to "homeworks". They're not really homework, just practise exercises.
    [20:35] <%Shingo> My ideal scenario:
    [20:35] <%Shingo> we lynch kario
    [20:35] <%Shingo> I scan again at night
    [20:35] <%Shingo> the doppel doppels me at night so we have two seers
    [20:35] <%Shingo> Mass scanning commences
    [20:36] <!Grim_Reaper> If you lynch kario and he has a role, the doppel doppels him.
    01[20:36] <+Endymion> you mean aer?
    [20:36] <+E_net4> The absorber.
    [20:37] <!Grim_Reaper> dasfsdgs
    [20:37] <!Grim_Reaper> Dag nabbit
    [20:37] <+E_net4> XD
    [20:37] <!Grim_Reaper> Too many similar roles.
    [20:37] <%Shingo> No
    [20:37] <%Shingo> that is the Aer
    [20:37] <%Shingo> er, blegh
    [20:37] <%Shingo> sniped.
    [20:39] <+E_net4> There were doppelgangers back in Notrium.
    #
    Zankman 14 years ago
    Eh.

    @E_net4
    1. Just a game? Yeah, it is; I ain't gonna blow a fuse because of it. Whats the point of that line? How is related to what I wrote? In any way? Fail dude.

    2. HUR DUR?? Or maybe I do? Don't phase me bro, I have played enough games to know what I am doing and to have a decent idea of what you guys are doing.

    3. No, I didn't mean that they shouldn't do that cuz I said so, I meant that why should I think about posting that when I just said that I don't agree with the idea.
    Again, I know, no point in pointing that out.

    4. And your point is? Agreeing with me? K then.

    5. Yeah, sure, its possible... But I said what I would do, and tbh, while not the best choice, it would suffice.

    6. Weak excuse > no excuse. K.
    How am I supposed to trust you? Do an awesome civ move in game, and I'll trust you (though even that isn't 100% confirmation).

    @Vacuus
    I did not scream bloody murder. I am doing what I am intending to do ATM perfectly.
    You did something out of the norm to ensure security for you? I'm sorry Vacuus, but I can't let you do that. I honestly suspect you + you did a weird thing. I don't have the luxury of just agreeing with you and giving you security.

    Again, just because I am new in the games on this forum doesn't mean that I am some tard who never played before. AGAIN, I understand strategy and I am (hopefully) seeing most things correctly now. Also, I'm not denying you the prospect of using/understanding strategy, like you are denying me.

    I suffered the faith of being killed in the first cycle 2 games in a row, and in cycle 2 also 2 games in a row (once I was mafia). I know how its like, in many roles. Yeah, I would die in the game, just to make sure we win it.
    But, what? DUDE, what in I Don't Know Who's name are you talking about? Why would I get myself lynched? Why would I do suicide? How would I help the common civilian goal, at this time of the game by doing that?
    Seriously, clueless & redundant reply is redundant & clueless. You iz fail.

    @next paragraph
    Yeah, you make sense there... Maybe I am overdoing it (though at this point I doubt that), but why would we just allow you to do that? If you are telling the truth sir, great for us! Yippee! If not, then damn. We got a problem.

    Get my drift? We have to be sure whats going on.

    Next:
    You said it yourself - I am neither the Infected or Village Idiot, good job on realizing. You aren't playing differently, and I wouldn't say hazardously, but you are playing in a way to make us vary.

    @Shingo
    Great.
    Weeee, I like this day cycle its so amusing... And annoying.

    BTW, Mordekaiser ftw!

    Disclaimer, since I don't wanna waste time on explaining it again:
    Just because I am the new guy in this game (on these forums) doesn't mean that I am clueless, stupid, that I don't see hidden motives, that I take everything for granted... I know for example, that player A posts something just to make player B lynch them, I know that player F might do something just so he could survive the night, that player S might attack someone even though they have no suspicion, just so they could do X thing, I know that player D might troll player Q just so Y happens, etc.

    I have that much respect for you all to assume that you all know and do these things; I am just saying that you should do the same for me.

    Aaaaand there goes my "dumb yourself down so that they think you're an idiot" gameface. :/
    See?!?
    I
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    Huh...

    ...I bet you didn't read the "chill" part of my post. That was extremely aggressive, mister. Good for you there are other people we should be afraid of by now.

    That pretty much looked like flaming for our OWN behaviour in the game. Would you slap some guy next to you while he was sucking at Counter-Strike? No, just let him play.
    #
    Zankman 14 years ago
    What is with the IRC thing? I mean, really?
    To be clear, what is with Off-Forum talking? Any real talk about the game (except for some comments like "oh, this game is gonna be hard"), not just on MSN or something, but in any other forum topic, should be strictly forbidden! Of course, no one can stop you from talking on IRC or something, yeah, but really? It simply isn't fair/right.

    You did post the whole log, k, nice of you, but still...


    1. Read the last part in italics, in my previous post. Exactly that sir, exactly that. :/
    2. Yes I did, and I replied about how you were passive aggressive/pointless with that comment.
    3. Troll stuff like "You iz fail." is there for a reason.

    Long post that makes sense * insert symbol for not equal* aggressive post; You don't understand apparently... You're getting boring with that "aggressive" accusation.

    I don't feel a Infected vibe from you dude, so I don't want to do anything against you; I guess you are simply baffled by my playstyle, so O.K. I'll give you time to adjust, just like I am too.
    #
    Zankman 14 years ago
    Editing is not allowed in Mafia/Wolf games, whatever its called... At least where I learned to play.

    Eh, dude! The disclaimer is OOC, its in italics, hence its true! The reason I posted it is the reason which I said in the post itself: So we could understand ourselves better. Just read it, and understand it. I am not flaming anyone, I am just giving people heads up, regarding the game in general, regarding my gameplay.
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    I've had enough of this discussion as well, so I'll just point this out:
    "Zankman" said:
    What is with the IRC thing? I mean, really?
    To be clear, what is with Off-Forum talking? Any real talk about the game (except for some comments like "oh, this game is gonna be hard"), not just on MSN or something, but in any other forum topic, should be strictly forbidden    !
    Well I'm most sure it isn't, and I can't see enough of a reason not to. In fact, you can private message anyone you want, so why not IRC?
    #
    Amarth 14 years ago
    "Zankman" said:
    What is with the IRC thing? I mean, really?
    To be clear, what is with Off-Forum talking? Any real talk about the game (except for some comments like "oh, this game is gonna be hard"), not just on MSN or something, but in any other forum topic, should be strictly forbidden! Of course, no one can stop you from talking on IRC or something, yeah, but really? It simply isn't fair/right.

    You did post the whole log, k, nice of you, but still...
    No, not at all. Dead people, non-players or the game master are forbidden to discuss anything that might give something away, which is basically they are forbidden to say *anything* about the game. But apart from those people, all communication is allowed. Form pacts, convince people, lie, cheat and deceive all you want. Do it in public, semi-public or one-on-one. That's the way we play. Don't assume you know everything because you read everything in the thread. You probably don't know half about what is going on that way.

    Also, chill the fuck out all of you. These rants are noise in a thread that is already hard to fully read into.
    #
    Endymion 14 years ago
    Zankman you have read at least some of the previous ww games right?
    #
    MageKing17 14 years ago
    "Endymion" said:
    Why isn't it said who was attacked? Not saying it's bad or anything, just wondering.
    Because it gives away too much information. The only way you'll learn the identity of the victim is if they die (and you'll also get their role that way).
    #
    Amarth 14 years ago
    Please note two things. One, Shingo will not, never back down from lynching kario because he's a stubborn fundamentalist christian communist who never revises his opinion. So we're in for a lynchday IMO.

    Second, Shingo's statement that he screened kario is in blatant contradiction with Vacuus' statement that he was screened. So one of the two is lying. However...

    We can lynch kario. If he's a wolf, it means Shingo is lucky, a wolf, or really the seer. The last one would make Vacuus a liar. Kario being a wolf does not help our odds in any way because he'll be Aer'd. But if he's no wolf, Shingo probably is one and he gave himself away easily here - so let's disregard that possibility. So kario might very well be a wolf, and Shingo wants to show he's helping us.

    We can lynch Vacuus under the assumption that he's bluffing about being the CWV, or that he doesn't really know the seer. If the things are as he tells them, we lose out mightily. We will get our CWV back by Aer, but lose out on the Seer. Also, Shingo is a damn liar. This is also assuming Vacuus would really kill the seer, which he probably won't do for real if he had any other option - like shooting Shingo for being a lying bastard.
    Now, if Vacuus does not know the seer, he could kill someone at semi-random. Still not in out advantage I think. So all in all, lynching Vacuus does not seem like a good idea.

    Lastly, we can lynch Shingo, because he plays aggressively, might be lying about the seer role and as noted above he might very well be a wolf trying to get our sympathy. Everything points to Shingo being a wolf.

    So (unless anyone comes with other evidence) he's the village idiot. For now, I'm siding with lynching either kario or Murska if it really must come to a lynching.
    #
    MageKing17 14 years ago
    "Amarth" said:
    We will get our CWV back by Aer, but lose out on the Seer.
    Incorrect. The CWV's kill occurs before his lynching (well, actually, he shanks them with the lightsaber before it detonates, but let's just use non-setting-specific terminology so my brain doesn't explode). As such, the Aer will absorb the Seer, not the Crazy War Veteran.
    #
    Zankman 14 years ago
    Eh. O.K, I'll apparently have to read some previous games and stuff... At least I got the roles down.
    Thanks, I'll have that in mind. I really didn't know that... I've played 3 different formats of Werewolf/Mafia game, quite different to be exact, but this is something totally new... So, O.K., free communication it is.

    And no, I didn't read any of the previous games. While the info about the rules would help, I didn't want to read them because I would get to much info on you guys... This way, you are new players for me, just like I am for you. Makes it more interesting, ya know.

    "Amarth" said:
    Also, chill the [censored] out all of you. These rants are noise in a thread that is already hard to fully read into.[/i]

    I guess some people are doing it on purpose, no?
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    Amarth points out some pretty good aspects. With a good chance, Shingo is infected, pretending to be the telepath, and choosing to kill one of his own that will later be Aer'd, supposedly giving him trust. You have to admit it's a good move for an infected: the number of players decrease by 1, and one of the neutral roles becomes an infected. So that means they start the next day with a handicap. And if he really is the seer, then why the heck is he voting to lynch Kario if he knows a new wolf will arise with the lynch?

    Another situation is that although he's the wolf, he just pointed at someone semi-randomly. It's not a good choice, as the Absorber would probably become one of us, and Shingo would be lynched the next day.
    The most awkward situation is that he's the Maniac. With the real telepath showing up, Shingo would be lynched for not telling the truth. But then that makes me wonder why he pointed at Kario.

    Either way, Shingo is most probably not lifting the vote, I agree. So either we let him kill Kario or just pick someone else. Abstaining is not wise anymore.

    "Zankman" said:
    I guess some people are doing it on purpose, no?
    Certainly not. It's our natural behaviour.
    #
    Shingo 14 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    Amarth points out some pretty good aspects. With a good chance, Shingo is infected, pretending to be the telepath, and choosing to kill one of his own that will later be Aer'd, supposedly giving him trust. You have to admit it's a good move for an infected: the number of players decrease by 1, and one of the neutral roles becomes an infected. So that means they start the next day with a handicap. And if he really is the seer, then why the heck is he voting to lynch Kario if he knows a new wolf will arise with the lynch?

    Another situation is that although he's the wolf, he just pointed at someone semi-randomly. It's not a good choice, as the Absorber would probably become one of us, and Shingo would be lynched the next day.
    The most awkward situation is that he's the Maniac. With the real telepath showing up, Shingo would be lynched for not telling the truth. But then that makes me wonder why he pointed at Kario.

    Either way, Shingo is most probably not lifting the vote, I agree. So either we let him kill Kario or just pick someone else. Abstaining is not wise anymore.

    "Zankman" said:
    I guess some people are doing it on purpose, no?
    Certainly not. It's our natural behaviour.

    Let's assume 3 wolves, 1 village idiot, and 1 cupid, shall we?

    Then let us remember that there is 1 seer, 1 angel.

    This means that while there are five negative roles the Doppelganger could potentially take, there are only two positive roles that he could take. By outting myself early, I take away this "safety net" of the Aer, yes. However, I make sure that I don't randomly die to a luck night kill, and that I don't get lynched. Furthermore, I open up the possibility that the Doppelganger will well.. doppel me, resulting in a two seer game. If I just sat on my behind and let things play out, I highly doubt the doppelganger would be content to twiddle his thumbs while not exercising his power. Furthermore, with two non-wolf negative roles and two positive roles, there is no specific reason to believe that the Aers ability would activate in our favor, if I had not acted as I have.

    Continuing on, now that I have made my gambit in the attempt eliminate the variable that is the Aer, as well as secure the help of the Doppel (if we should be so lucky), we do not have to worry about the possibility of a village idiot or cupid being Aer'd. If I lift the vote, at this point, there is no reason whatsoever for the angel protect me other than "Because Shingo asked me to." This leaves me as a pretty big target for the wolves, should nothing occur today.

    Assuming 3 wolves and 8 villagers with no first-night kill, we are allowed at least two completely erroneous lynches before we lose the game.

    Finally, I have no desire to see Vacuus become mayor. He has lied about contact with me, as well as having held the gun to the villagers heads of threatening to "kill the seer" should we lynch him. I suggest that we find a candidate for mayor, whom I shall then immediately scan.
    #
    Endymion 14 years ago
    I pretty much agree with E_net unless we can think of someone else we should let Shingo lynch kario. But in the mean time there's now a chance Vacuus might be lying so I'm not sure about him being mayor... What would we want from mayor besides not being a wolf? I like to think of myself as pretty level-headed, neutral and calm guy and if no one is against it I'd like to be a mayor.

    EDIT: uhh... I suppose I set myself as the shingo's next candidate... There are way too many posts too fast :/ So if some one thinks I should be a mayor feel free to vote. But if not that's cool too.
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    The cupid isn't a negative role! He won't have any powers, but at least he won't be infected. That makes one less "negative" role of yours. And your words still don't justify your choice of lynching Kario but to save your own skin. We don't know you're really the seer, and note that he's been mentioned long before you through Vacuus. Trusting you? I'll just trust no one until we have something worth your virus. I'm de-selecting all my votes for now, and waiting for "both" seers to "quarrel".
    #
    Vacuus 14 years ago
    Folks - and I realise you fully expected me to say this - Shingo is not the seer; he's either infected, stupid, or the village idiot. Claiming to be the seer could be an attempt to draw angel protection away from me (though I doubt I'll receive it) and to kill me off during the night, so I guess stupid fits in there.

    Angel can waste a night protecting them if they wish it, but I'd advise the doppelganger not to clone them until they know for sure that he's not infected (which I'm strongly suspecting that he is). Seems odd he had that sort of discussion on IRC about 'why' I did this and that before coming here and claiming to be the seer.

    I doubt he's the village idiot, as despite all the noise he's making, claiming to be the seer is a *huge* gambit even when there are no competing claims and as such he's much, much more likely to be killed during the night if the Angel doesn't believe his claim and if he's not infected. There's also a lower chance of being lynched if even one person believes him.

    I'm not sure about kairo being infected and the Aer becoming so , it might be a play to remove the Aer early on and to convince the doppelganger to clone an infected, but even so.

    As for me being killed because I'm currently acting as a mouthpiece for the seer, I wouldn't bother infected. Contact has already been made with other civilians so even if I'm killed there will always be another mouth.

    Despite all of that, I won't be lynching anyone just yet. No matter what we do this round, the Aer will take on their role. Perhaps shingo should be lynched next round, I don't know.
    #
    Shingo 14 years ago
    "E_net4" said:
    The cupid isn't a negative role! He won't have any powers, but at least he won't be infected. That makes one less "negative" role of yours. And your words still don't justify your choice of lynching Kario but to save your own skin. We don't know you're really the seer, and note that he's been mentioned long before you through Vacuus. Trusting you? I'll just trust no one until we have something worth your virus. I'm de-selecting all my votes for now, and waiting for "both" seers to "quarrel".
    The cupid stands a chance of creating another side entirely. I suppose calling the cupid a negative role is a matter of interpretation, however. I concede the point, as such.

    I know that Vacuus isn't the mouthpiece for the seer, and I know that Kario is a wolf. As I already pointed out, in the scenario we find ourselves in, we are allowed two completely erroneous lynches before the wolves gain any sort of advantage. Assume you don't believe me - it will only take up one of those lynches to find out, and the potential payoff is confirmation of me as seer.
    #
    Vacuus 14 years ago
    No, it's not actually.

    If you're infected, then you know the identity of all other infected and lynching kairo does nothing as the Aer also becomes infected. Likelihood of you being outed is reduced as there is still some doubt remaining as to whether it's you or I being honest - that will remain until the seer can scan a neutral party or two who can also confirm that I'm telling the truth. By that point you'll have me dead one way or another, I suspect.

    If you're so convinced that you're the seer, don't lynch kairo this round and wait until the next when the Aer has already fulfilled a role. If you cannot do that then I suggest we lynch you next round.

    Edit: I also offered to let Shingo scan me tonight to confirm my identity - naturally, he refused. Claiming to 'want to to do something useful with his scan'. I have the logs should you want them.
    #
    Kario 14 years ago
    first of all it's kario not kairo.
    next shingo why me?why not grim or something?
    my mayor vote is endymion he seems more or less neutral (official)
    (don't know how to do color)
    my lynch is for narvius(official)
    #
    MageKing17 14 years ago
    "Kario" said:
    first of all it's kario not kairo.
    next shingo why me?why not grim or something?
    my mayor vote is endymion he seems more or less neutral (official)
    (don't know how to do color)
    my lynch is for narvius(official)
    You see those buttons above the text box? You can either highlight the name and click the "B" button on the top-left, or click the "Font colour" button on the top-right.

    If you really can't figure that out, I suppose I'll count that vote anyway.
    #
    Anarion 14 years ago
    I'm interested to know why an intelligent person such as Shingo would do what he's done if he were telling the truth. If he's the seer he's opened himself to possible attack from the Werewolves. Now... If he IS really the seer and he really HAS discovered the Kario is a werewolf, his decision to announce this achieves nothing. Lynching a known wolf at this point results in the Aer (who's identity we don't know) becoming a wolf. At this stage Lynching someone doesn't help us, if we lynch a werewolf a new werewolf rises. If we lynch a villager, the villagers lose one of their own. Currently Vacuus' claims make the most sense to me, so my vote remains as Vacuus for mayor and No lynch.

    No lynch benefits the villagers the most at this point.
    #
    E_net4 14 years ago
    "Kario" said:
    next shingo why me?why not grim or something?
    Are you questioning his supposed scan? Sure Grim could've been a better target, but he had his choice. Either that or, assuming Shing is infected and is sacrificing one of his own for trust, that he should choose another one to sacrifice. Heh, let's just assume you wouldn't say that much.

    And we already know what to do, nevertheless. Shingo, if you're the seer then you have to help us.

    Addition:
    "kario" said:
    my lynch is for narvius
    What the hell are you doing?
    #
    Forum » Werewolf 8 - The Experiment
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